Just a quote I found today that I thought were interesting. Probably heard it before though.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

Epicurus

I like all of it. I'm going to print it out.

I agreed with your post, although I thought there were a few minor flaws with it. Of course, the biggest flaw is the approach. After reading some of the ensuing debate at the forums, it looks like several people there are complete fundamentalists with whom no rational argument is possible. In other words, you're wasting your time.

I think one of your opponents said it best: "...you have no concept of faith, for if you did you would be able to understand what a fool you are trying to 'enlighten' anyone who has great faith in something."

Unless you have an infinite amount of time to untangle everything wrong with their counterarguments (like the guy who was using the "statistical probability" of things in the universe being "just right" for us to be here--and of course, the idea of "probability" itself is dependent on those very "unprobable" events he is attempting to use it to discount, and questioning the likelihood of those events from our position is rather silly, since if they hadn't happened we simply wouldn't be here to question them), and unless the fact that even if you could rationally show them all of their mistakes you wouldn't change most of their minds doesn't bother you--I would say don't bother.

You're a smart man. You're arguments are strong. I'm a Christian and I cant answer a lot of your questions. If you havent already, read the book of Job in the bible. It will answer some of your questions. More importantly I would encourage you to keep asking questions and to ask God directly to reveal himself to you. I have experienced personally the forgiveness and love of God and know the joy of His abiding presence in my heart. These things I cannot explain. One day we will stand before the living God in all his majesty and power.

Wheeeee!

Andrew,

Thanks for your comments. Speaking of Job, I highly recommend the book "Job: A Comedy of Justice" by Robert Heinlein.

Thanks for the Heinlein reference. I also enjoy sci-fi - My favourites are H.G. Wells, Asimov and Clarke.

You've got me thinking - Do you believe capitalism and fundamentalism are linked ? ie. Is the ethos of capitalism at its roots a product of fundamentalist teachings re freedom, justice.. or is capitalism an independent entity; one which exists to satisfy the fundamentally human characteristics of greed and power ?

Andrew,

I think the best way for me to answer that, is for you to go to Capitalism.org and take the "tour".

David

I'm in Australia (Yes I can validate Australia exists.) What you may not believe is its a balmy 25 celcius, perfect day and its winter!

I took the capitalism tour. Although Australia is a constitutional monarchy I think we're politically closer to the definition of capitalism portrayed in that site than the U.S. How do you feel about your country starting war ?

You are an idiot for two reasons:

a) you don't see the Utilitarian worth of any system of beliefs
or
b) you are basing your rational/reason argument on pure reason, which is a fallacy because all knowledge is synthetic.

Put the Ayn Rand book down and read a real book you shlub.

Oh, that's rich.

Now look what you've done, David. By debating with complete pragmatist (the reason for accepting a system of beliefs is its "Utilitarian worth"?!), anti-rational mystics, you've now got them trolling your blog (and calling you a "shlub", even).

I warned you. :)

There may be another possibility perhaps God is not omnipitent in some respects but is in all non contradictory ones. maby there is no hell and God is onimpitent in everything accept that of which free will interfers. Much of this is debated in the matrix movies ie the archetect could not build a perfect human world because it would restrict free will. The other question is were does free will (must exist or this disscussion and everthing we do is pointless) come from perhaps God is simply the creator of the first cause of Causality and the creator of free will and conciousness( neccacary for free will) science has yet to find any way these can happen prehaps they will edventualy quantum mechanics is showing promise of an explination of something from nothing free will and consciousness. Any thoughts please E mail [email protected]