Earlier this week Salon published an article about a mother dealing with an adult Autistic son, who’s out of control violence led her to desperate measures. Her story reminded me of the angry responses I’ve received whenever I’ve written against Down syndrome.
Dozens of parents have responded to each post, claiming to have adorable little children with Down’s. (The context to keep in mind here is that Down syndrome is now an optional illness, now that safe and effective testing is available for all mothers in the developed world.) Yet, I haven’t received a single comment from parents of adults with Down syndrome. Where are all the adorable little adults with Down syndrome?
I suspect there are three reasons why I haven’t seen their comments.
First, many of their children died prematurely due to the many health complications of Down Syndrome. (See previous posts for details.)
Second, many children have grown up to become severely disabled adults, and are living in mental institutions at taxpayer expense – or sometimes, in homeless shelters or on the streets.
Third, the minority of parents whose children survived to adulthood and who remained committed to taking care of them on their own know that their adorable babies turned into incomprehensible, obstinate, sullen, capricious, and sometimes very violent adults. Their mental illness makes the world an incomprehensible place to them, and their unpredictable behavior makes them bewildering to their caretakers.
Have you ever noticed the ratio of mentally disabled children to that of mentally disabled adults in social situations? The apparent disparity goes beyond their lower life expectancy. I suspect that the surviving retarded children grow into retarded adults, fundamentally unable to deal with civilized life, and hidden away in homes and institution and highway underpasses.
My point is that human disabilities, mental and physical, are a tragedy to be avoided at all costs, not something to be accepted as unavoidable fate, or worse, to be cherished for their uniqueness. They ought to be screened, aborted, and engineered out of the human race as soon as medically and technologically possible. If this is obvious to you, great. Unfortunately, inexplicably, even rational people whom I respect differ with me on this issue. The only proper response for parents who make such choices ought to be moral condemnation: if they have chosen to have crippled children, they ought to condemned, and all the pain, frustration, violence, and expense caused by their choice ought to be placed squarely on the parents.
(In response to the inevitable comments, I must emphasize that the condemnation extends only to the parents. Like all human beings, the victims of their parents’ choice ought to be cherished, and every effort should be made to integrate them into society and make them productive adults.)
One last observation: I’ve already written how many parents who choose to have Down children treat them as religious icons when they are small. When they grow large, how many of them treat them as pets that have grown too large to keep in the house, and delegate them to a locked basement, or a mental institution?
Update: Thanks to everyone for their comments. Rather than trying to respond to individual comments, I have summarized my response here: The One Minute Case for Designer Babies. Many of the other comments address abortion and eugenics. I responded to those arguments in this post.
I read your post and was curious what was behind your perspective toward people with disabilities. It made a little more sense, though, when I saw in your bio you were born in Ukraine. That is very interesting. I would like to challenge you to consider the fact that you may have brought your birth country’s ideas with you and have not given much consideration to an American perspective. As you probably already know, in Ukraine almost everyone who has a special need is placed in an institution and separated from the rest of society. It used to be the same here in the United States but in the last few decades many have come to realize that even those with challenges still have much to offer the world. We see their value. I would encourage you to spend some time with people who have special needs – perhaps at your local Goodwill Industries – and really spend that time with an open mind and heart. There is so much good and so much value even in those people who may not have typical abilities. Are they perfect? Of course not! Do they have challenges? Absolutely. But that is true for every person on the planet. We all have things that make us loveable and things that those around us have to overlook because they like us the rest of the time.
I can tell that you are someone who likes to think outside the box and to challenge the accepted wisdom. I am just asking that you consider also challenging this mindset that came from your past culture and give due consideration to the perspective embraced by many in your adopted country.
I was linked to this post by Rachel. I, like Rachel, can see how your perspective is colored by the fact that you are Ukrainian. This is to say that the United States offers many more opportunities for all individuals. I suspect that is why you are here yourself.
I am the mother of 5 sons with Down syndrome. My 2 oldest are now 22 years and 19. They are very much part of their community. There are jobs and sports teams, church worship, friends, volunteering to read at a hospice and girlfriends. They are responsible and contributing members of their community.
My sons have many challenges in life, as do we all. They work harder to accomplish everyday tasks than most. Medical issues are more complicated.
Life in the US, for individuals with disabilities, has not always been that different from in other countries. The United States, as a county and society has had to learn where and how we all are valuable and able to contribute. We still have so far to go in this area.
I believe in the sanctity of life. I cannot judge who should or shouldn’t live, whose life is of value. I can, however, educate and work to assist parents, educators, community members and others in their understanding of the possibilities that we all have.
I, like my parents, and all parents wish for my children to grow and thrive. I wish for them to reach their potential, to be happy and live graciously in life. I believe they are doing these things.
I have the opportunity to work with orphanages in Eastern Europe and I can tell you, albeit slowly, perspectives are changing there. Orphanage Directors are interested in learning and improving conditions for all their children. Parents are beginning to establish support groups and see the potential of their children.
Life is a never-ending educational experience and I believe you, as well, have much to learn. I hope that you can find it in your heart and mind to look beyond what you see on the surface, to contact community groups, to meet and get to know adults with Down syndrome. The next time you see someone with Down syndrome, stop, talk to them as you would anyone you first meet. First and foremost we are individuals and no two of us are alike. As a parent, I can say all my 5 sons have very different personalities, challenges, and desires. They are far from perfect as is their mother and was their father.
I would be happy to introduce my sons to you and talk with you, to introduce you to other parents, employers, educators, and adults with Down syndrome in the community.
You are the dumbest person in the world-I can hardly believe I am wasting my time writing to you. But, please know we adopted a child with extra chromosomes on purpose! I think that says everything right there! Every adult I know with Ds (probably at least 20) are way better functioning than you and contribute to society way better than you too! And, not one of these adults is hidden away. I just wish there was a prenatal test for people like you and extermination could happen to those who test positive 🙂
I am shocked that anyone would say that children with disabilities should be aborted. If they lived through the gestation and birth process I’d say it is God’s will that they are alive and that most likely we can learn something from their being in this world. No one will act perfectly or think perfectly but these people with Ds can contribute so much to our lives if we get to know them. There are Ds and autistic people at our local grocery store and I LOVE seeing them when I go and speaking to them. They make my day BETTER just by being themselves AS THEY ARE.
David:
I am sorry you have been indoctrinated about the lack of human values you learned from your previous country of birth. I am sorry you feel the way you do because it tells me a lot about you, none that is overly positive my friend. You have a lot to learn in this world and getting rid of people who do not live up to your expectations is no place to start. Your thinking goes right along with Nazism and I’m sure your parents and grandparents can you tell a lot about that. Time to think outside the box and get a grip. This is the 21st. century, not the early 20th century where all of those old mindsets belong. I hope you are not planning on having any children, for they will bring you and your type nothing but misery. No one on this planet will ever know what is in store for our children. They may start out perfect, but then end up becoming drug addled, thieves, liars or murderers– or acquire mentally and physically deficiencies due to physical traumas. Please…do not have any children until you can with good conscience understand that nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is guaranteed in this life.
David,
Wow, I have to admit that I thought that once Ukrainians came to the United States and embraced our culture that they would have left their outdated, soviet union ideas behind. I guess not. I have been to Ukraine to do Humanitarian Aide work with orphanages where your Ukrainian people throw not just their disabled children, but their perfectly healthy, typical children as well. While the Ukrainian people are a very beautiful people and I met many that I genuinely like, I was shocked at how many lived. So, should I degrade the Ukrainian people for their lack of money or their lack or luxuries? Should I degrade them for their open toilets, their lack of hygeine? People are all raised a certain way and live a certain way. I am sure that your parents came to America for a better life. We are a very accepting culture. I wish that you would spend some time with people with disabilities before judging them. I hope to someday go back to Ukraine and bring home 2 children with *gasp* Down Syndrome. Am I motivated by religion? No. I am motivated by what my heart tells me. I love all people, even people like you who hate others. You are a very educated person and I guess that is what surprises me so much. I live in Texas as well and while I am happy to have a very intelligent and educated person here, I worry that you may spread your ignorance about disabilities to someone who isn’t quite as intelligent as yourself. Why does your being so intelligent and educated surprise me? Well, because you sound like some kind of back woods moron with a 1st grade education when you talk about people with disabilities. Learn David, you are a smart man- Please learn more about people with disabilities before doing this to them.
Christy
I am sister to a young man (26 yrs. old)with Ds. I would not change having him in my life for anything in the world. He is an inspiration to me, and I have adopted a child of my own with Ds as a result of having my brother in my life. My sister has done the same. She and I often argue who will have the HONOR of having our brother live with them when and if my parents are no longer able to have him at home. When a precious little child grows up (Ds or not), they remain the same person. Perhaps you are in the wrong circles to see people with disabilities in the community. They are there.
I hope you are able to see the value some day of every life, despite the abilities that one has. The person in my life that I have learned the most from, and been the most affected by is my brother. If only you had the joy of having someone like him in your life.
Isn’t this the hateful garbage we heard in 1939 Germany? The Nazis started with the physically and mentally disabled because it was easy justify their extermination as being beneficial to the society and a mercy to the ones they persecuted. I hope that you and all of your family are blonde, blue eyed, over six foot tall with an IQ above 120 and able to run a pentathalon if anyone else with your beliefs rises to power or you may be rounded up and marched into the showers.
It’s called Eugenics, and your outdated world view died with Adolph Hitler. Lest you think i am offended, I am not. That would be like being offended by a clown at a circus or monkey at a zoo.I hesitate to blame your ignorance on your nation of origin like some of the previous posters, as your stupidity could be attributed to several factors. The main one being depravity, while a close second could be arrogance. At any rate, my name is Dan Kulp and I am the proud sibling to 4 brothers and sisters who have Down syndrome.Three are in their forties and one is 39 years old. Sorry to tell you that they are productive members of society who have enriched their communities and brightened the lives of most people around them. My wife and I recently adopted our own child and, you guessed it, he has the extra chromosome. By the way, we are awaiting our second from China who, additionally, has Ds. We have been told that our current son is the first child ever to let out of china with Ds. Sorry fella, the world is changing and not in the Utopian, 3rd Reich manner of which you exist. If ever you wish to debate the value of life and the failure of Darwinian evolution, well, you have my info. Are you up to the challenge? or are you a coward as i suspect. Frankly, i am pleased to have someone like you on the web as a useful idiot, to show the rest of the sane world what ancient relics truly look like.
Opinions are opinions, and free speech is free speech. But when you say you haven’t heard from a single parent of an adult with Down–and there is a posting big as life from the mother of not one but two adult sons with the syndrome–it makes one wonder.
A person is a person no matter what – killing is murder no matter what – killing those with down syndrome and other mental diseases is still wrong.
Well, my daughter isn’t an adult yet. She’ll be turning 13 in a couple of months. But, I can’t imagine that the day she turns 18 she would suddenly collapse, loose all her functioning abilities, and require institutionalization! (which, in the US. is quite rare!!!) My daughter is VERY active! She can’t wait until she’s old enough to have a job, and her goal this week is to be a hostess at Applebees. Last week she wanted to be a veterinarian. She swims, she plays softball, she competes in track and field. She actively participates in a theater group where she is the only person with a disability and is not given (nor does she need) any special accommodations. And, to put it into perspective, all her friends who have DS are at, or above her level. She is very “average” when it comes to tweens who have DS. I’m sorry that your country of birth has given you a twisted understanding of what it means to raise a child who has Down syndrome. I think you should go spend a day at a special olympics event and see what you’re missing!
Spot on David.
Choosing to create a diseased child is an awful and immoral action.
Abortion is not eugenics, to those trying to draw hollow parallels to the Nazis, a human embryo is not a person. It is also important to note there are no political statements in this post, no suggestions to abort diseased pregnancies by force or government intervention.
It is unbelievable cruelty that people could put children in the position of having Down Syndrome.
David
First you compare people like Sarah Palin bring trig into the world to rapists, because he had down syndrome, and now you add,
“My point is that human disabilities, mental and physical, are a tragedy to be avoided at all costs, not something to be accepted as unavoidable fate, or worse, to be cherished for their uniqueness.”
So should we force mothers who are about to give to such children into having abortions against there will, regardless of their conscious? Are you going to support forced abortions? Something even your some of your fellow objectivists have openly opposed? Based on your disturbed way of thinking we could easily justify that and once we have, where will it stop? Would you support a Chinese style one child per family policy?
Plus what about people like Steven Hawking? People can do a lot of good in spite of any learning, or physical disability.
Let me repeat the first part of my question since I left a word out.
“So should we force mothers who are about to give birth to such children into having abortions against there will, regardless of their conscious?”
Roberto…. first of all, any tests that would be done to detect abnormalities are not done on an EMBRYO. You have no idea of what you speak. Tests are done further along into gestation when brain waves are present and babies would feel the pain of being MURDERED for convenience. Barbaric.
David, I’m very sorry that you have such a sad and twisted view of the world. There are clearly some personal injuries to your heart and psyche that occurred at a very formative time when empathy and compassion are instilled in a person. Do you realize that some people cherish and honor the fact that the self-sacrifice and adversity which comes with caring for handicapped children actually enriches their lives?
You are a very sick, selfish person. Too bad there aren’t prenatal screenings for jackass, so your mother could have known the type of adult you would turn out to be and abort your ass before it was too late.
Our family just adopted a little 2 year old boy from Ukraine. I can’t help but see the similarities to the way of thinking most have there right now (similar to what it was like here in the US 50 years ago). May God help your soul because right now, as a biological mother of a child with Down Syndrome, I feel sorry for you that you haven’t opened your eyes or heart. Your time will come, like everyone else, where you are judged and I hope before then, that you come to terms to what you have said.
May God have mercy on your soul,but then I question if you have one.There is an eternal payday but better yet,there is a GOD who is rich in mercy and grace and one day you will face HIM and your words will grieve you..I pray that Divine Mercy and Grace will change your deceived heart and mind because ALL have worth and value in GOD`s sight,even YOU..Be assured you are being prayed for and one day you`ll come to the truth!
You’re an IDIOT!
WOW. Where have you been hiding your head all these years?!? Yes, I do think you being Ukrainian must play into your misguided thought pattern. First all…”preventable?” What, by killing the baby? UMMM…so, if I follow this thought line…wow, we could kill off LOTS of folks, old and young, to “prevent” them from getting certain illnesses. Like cancer…hey, yeah…cuz certain folks are more prone to certain types, so hey, we could get rid of them, right?
Let me tell you about my friend John. He is in his 40’s, has Down Syndrome, and has an extremely responsible job. He volunteers for the Special Olympics, he has lots of friends, he babysits for his many nieces and nephews, he drives a car (quite well, I might add!) and he is a wonderful man. So there you go…I know lots more people with Ds, but don’t want to take up all your time. Sure you’re busy thinking about more ways to save the world. I’m praying for you buddy!
As a mother of a child with DS, the challenges are tough. I have to say that your knowledge of DS is off the radar! I will pray for you. Our family has learned true love! My son may only be 7 but he can read and write an is very verbal. Education! Respect, and peer involment! I will pray for you. I know he will have frustrations, but as all my children do? You are seriously whacked and need help or you have no soul?
I have an autistic son and this post just makes me ill. My son was not diagnosed until he was 5. Should I have institutionalized him? Give me a break. Get yourself some education on people with disabilities.
I’m not sure if you wrote this to just get a rise out of people, and are just looking for feedback and attention…. But, i have to say that I find it extremely disturbing that you would share you skewed views of individuals with disABILITIES and DS with the world where you (I hope to God not) may influence someone else’s views.
I really think you should try and enlighten yourself about people you are going to criticize before you decide to spew your hate.
People with DS are some of the kindest and most loving individuals in this worls, I am privilaged to work with adults with DS on a daily basis.
I will pray for you and for your heart to be turned away from such hate.
So answer me this smart one; What if you had all the latest tests with the latest technology and your tests all came back normal. What if you had your child and loved the little one with all your heart and soul. What if when your little one is 9 months old comes down with a common cold and you take him/her to the doctors for them to tell you…”have you ever thought that your child has Downs” You answer “no” he does not look like a Downs child, he is doing everything a 9 month old should be doing, he has never given you any reason for you to even wonder about his health. Your doctor sends you to have gentic testing that takes up to 8 weeks. Now you have an 11 month old who you are now told that “yes, your child has Downs.” What would you do? You have lived with this child for 11 months, not knowing that your child is mentally not normal and there is no cure? You love this child. Most children are cute and adorable. Even normal children can grow up and look “scary” does that change their love? does that change their profile? If you were smart then your answer should be NO. Any person child or adult is a person. A person with feelings. A person with a heart that loves. A person who can be taught and can learn 30 years ago your theory would be correct, however with the research that is being done and the medical care that is now available your thoughts on this matter are stupid and who says you are not mentally challenged…oh wait maybe you are since you did not do your research and write your thoughts without being educated….Hmmm, I also wonder what you look like, if I were to judge you on your writting…..You probably look very scary and you probably don’t have a heart. The heart is the most important thing to have. Not looks!
It’s a shame that you were born in such a crappy country, you’re going straight to hell!
Unbelievable! Don’t kid anyone – you’re not condemning parents – you are condemning the disabled by saying that they are not worthy to live!
Do you even know who Steven Hawking is? He is the most intelligent man on earth today – he is a genius, the greatest mind in a disabled body. According to your reasoning (if you can call it that) Steven Hawking didn’t deserve to be born!
You, sir, are an insensitive ass. Too bad your parents didn’t have an abortion…
Who are you really? I can’t in anyway take you seriously, but I will tell you about the adult individuals with Down (not Down’s) syndrome that I know.
Dawn is 46, has lived on her own since she was 18, she works and volunteers for two different non-profit organizations.
Layne is in his 50’s and is married to Shauna, who is in her 40’s. They travel and speak at conferences. Layne is recently retired after working for over 30 years at the same company and he drives. Yes, I mean drives a real car, has never been in an accident or had a speeding ticket.
Becca, in her 30’s, is an actress and speaker, just recently did a commerical about acceptance, something you know nothing about.
Reed, 25, also an actor and speaker. He has served a served a mission for his church, having to learn and memorize numerous facts to share with visitors of a museum.
Dustin and Danielle, 30’s and 20’s, engaged to be married. Danielle goes to beauty school. Dustin just lost both parents to cancer, but is still living just fine.
I could go on and on, but I really don’t want to waste anymore of my time on someone as worthless as you.
Applarently some have never had much contact with childen and adults with Downs Syndrome. I worked with a variety with Downs for over 15 years. They are as varied in ability and personality as any “normal” people.
Have them as a friend and they will always be your friend.
Go Figure…. A Ukrainian getting a degree in Philosophy from an AG school in Texas.
I have run into people like you for the last 28 years.
All I ask, is that you sign a living will stating that if you were to become sick, become dependent upon another to care for you, become damaged in any way shape or form, losing your finger, losing your foot in an accident, needing blood etc. That you state that you will receive no such care because you don’t deserve it. This would make you a leach on society and society should not care for somebody such as you.
I know you are young and stupid…. Hopefully, living, experience and time will wake you up. Maybe a really good car accident will change your mind… and you will meet REAL people, who REALLY exist and Really care.
I’m so sorry that you have never experienced really real love in your life.
Christie- mom to 7. 2 who are Ukrainians that Ukraine considered TRASH…. they botched thier abortions, and because of that I am BLESSED with wonderful beautiful SMART daughters, who will never, EVER, be unloved or uncherished again.
I pity you and that is why I won’t call you a piece of trash.
I would also like to add…..
Capitalism and our form of government will not work in an immoral society. Everywhere we look around we are finding that to be true. Thieves, the immoral and liars are bringing our country down.
Greed is not synonymous with Capitalism. But when it becomes so, watch out…. things will fail.
You love capitalism, but you are not a true capitalist.
You are a greedy man who wants everything for yourself.
That shows in your post above. You don’t want another’s life to effect yours. But that isn’t real.’
True philosophy should show you that.
You sir, are on the slippery slope of eugenics which led to Nazism and the murder of millions. And don’t forget:
UKRAINIANS were murdered to feed the Russians pre- world war 2.
BTW- I saw your profile pic. You are not blonde haired or blue eyed or that handsome…. It could have been YOU!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Go back to the Ukraine…Go back to your backwards, racist, disillusioned country where you believe in this “Nazi-like” perfect world. To me and many people in our country of America, believe that YOU are the disabled one, and YOU are the one that should be removed!!! You’re on sick twisted person…I will pray for your sad, pitiful soul…
You know you are a jackass… You must not have kids… You should grow up and see the real world.. I have two boys and pray to God everyday to watch over them and keep them healthy..Anyday or time something can happen to them and to YOU.. You should pray to God and ask to be forgiven for what you had said about DS people. I have worked in the mental health field for 15yrs and worked with all kinds of people and DS are very loving ones… So you need to think the next time you write something like this, people don’t like ulgy and that is what you are….
So.. pretty much I should have been aborted??? I was born with 23 disabilities.. I am now a wife, mother, full time working, bachelor degree holder woman! Thank goodness you weren’t the decider in my being born or not
On your most recent post you called an unborn child with DS a parasitic clump of cells. You truly are one of the most misinformed people who claim to be smart that I have ever met.
Have you watched this? Even children with DS were created by God. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e4zgJXPpI4&feature=related
I also don’t know why I am responding to you.
If you did your research you would know that the test for Down’s syndrome is not 100%. I have worked in maternity for 14 years and know of many families that have had “normal” babies that tested positive on the test, my niece being one of them.
Nobody is perfect including you. Your idea is no different than Hitler killing the Jews because of their religion. In that case people could say you needed to be killed because of where you are from.
God makes all people who they are for a reason. And not all mentally retarded people are Down’s Syndrome. Some have complications from birth, some from abusive parents, sometimes things just happen.
Oh and if you look around there are very few mental institutions in the United States. They were closed for inhumane treatment. I do believe that we need mental institutions for cases of mental illness that cannot be controlled. But only if they are treated with respect and dignity.
You need to look in the mirror and see that you are not perfect either. Obviously you have a warped mind to think that we should kill people for being different. If we did that who would be left?
Roberto = moron!
I am hopeful that one day you and your girlfriend may have the pleasure of having a child with DS that surprises you. Though the ACOG recommends “screening” this process is not perfect. The first test, based in large part on statistical analysis in relation to the age of the mother, does not identify all with DS. The confirmatory test, amniocentesis, comes with its own risks. It, too, may be misleading when the DS is a manifestation of a translocation (portions of an additional #21 attached to or exchanged with another chromosome) or a mosaicism (when only some but not all cells have the additional #21).
I have had the opportunity to interact with many older individuals with DS. There are obviously varying degrees of severity in their social interactions, mostly related to environmental factors (if a parent treats you like a moron, you’ll become a moron) as well as whether they are among the marginal percentage that are also autistic. However, the majority are functional. They strive to hold that job that you would likely feel is “beneath” you. They desire to be active participants in their community. Those are qualities I would rather encounter in ANY human being.
So, David, that is why I hope your perspective will change when you are fortunate enough to be tethered to a child with designer genes.
I sure hope your girlfriend is no longer working with people who have disabilities. If she believes as you do, she has NO BUSINESS working with our kids!!! And she has NO BUSINESS working with adults who have disabilities who were born in a time when people still believed as you do and they didn’t get the same education our kids do now. If I ever found out someone who believes like you was working with my child (or my adult child for that matter) I’d blow a gasket!
David,
Maybe all of the parents of adults with Down Syndrome (not Downs) are out enjoying life while their adult children are enjoying theirs….working, going to school, getting married.
I suspect that your attitude comes not from you being born in a foreign country, but from fear. God help you if you should have to interact with, accept a cheeseburger from, or sit in a class next to somebody who has a disabiltiy. Let me asssure you, it won’t rub off.
You have been blasted by plenty of others above for your Nazi-like views – so I will save my time. Just think what would have happened if having a child with blue or brown eyes or red or brown hair suddenly became a “disabilty”? Where would YOU be? How about those that you love?
You are a sad, sad person. I will keep you in my prayers.
Stephanie – mom to a 5 year old with Down Syndrome
I am a mother of a 40 year old man who was born with Down Syndrome. He works, he is a much decorated athlete.
Everyone he knows thinks he is special…in every positive way. He teaches us all how to love.
You, I judge to also be special…in every negative way.
I pity you for your purposeful ignorance. Expand that closed mind, discard the meannesses of your judgments. If you can’t do that, then just stop talking and spreading your ignorant vitriol please.
The Salon article was about autistic children growing up to be violent, as a symptom of their autism. Now find me an article about DS adults being violent, because of their trisomy 21 condition. Because I couldn’t find one.
Please, please, please tell me that you will never have children. If your child does not live up to your expectations will you simply murder him or her? I must say that hearing that you are from the ukraine does explain a lot….
You are an idiot, plan and simple.
While I find your post disturbing, I also find it equally disturbing that the people who accuse you of discriminating against the disabled seem to think it’s okay to trash you just because you’re Ukrainian. Talk about hypocrisy.
Look i think your your really stepped on your own feet this time. People with down sydrome are Gods kids. And I dont think he would appericate you putting them down like you are. Because there are a lot of kids in this world that has down sydrome and have became good kids. So you need to get a life. Tammy
People like YOU are whats wrong with this world!!
I’m just wondering what makes you so much better than anyone else, and why your life has value where there are other lives with none. Every person has thoughts, feelings, and emotions regardless of their abilities. Just because someone has a mental handicap doesn’t mean we have the right to take their life. If I had a choice, I’d choose to abort the ignorant and shallow minded bigots like you.
We live in a very small community, but I know of several adults with disabilities who are working and productive members of society. They are well mannered, polite, and very hard working.
wowzers. i’ve worked with loads of adults with downs. they live by themselves. grocery shop by themselves. and are the happiest people i know. i think you need to broaden your horizons a bit and search out those people. talk to one of them. they show more love than any other ‘normal’ person i’ve ever met. even me.
This has GOT to be a joke! What medical degree gives you any sort of background to make such over the top statements? Have you ever spent time with a person LIVING with Downs? Maybe if your mother knew what kind of person you were going to turn out to be maybe she should have had you ‘screened, aborted, and engineered out of the human race as soon as medically and technologically possible.’ That my dear sir WOULD make this world a better place indeed.
I am utterly appalled by this post. I haven’t even read the comments. You, sir, sound like a complete monster.
I am not the mother of a Downs baby. I do know mothers of Downs babies, and I hope none of them find your site.
rpm
How Ayn Rand of you. Even as a conservative and capitalist, I’m tired of the paeans to Ayn Rand and your post epitomizes my reasoning.
Enjoy your objectivism – it must be so lonely in your eugenically sterile place.
Wow..your ignorance amazes me. I really didn’t think anyone could possibly be that ignorant.
I would rather live in a world where people accept what God has created than live in a place where idiots like you spread your evil , misinformed, idiotic opinions.
It seems like you are a very uneducated individual to make the comments that you have made. Please go to the following links and get yourself educated!
http://www.ndsccenter.org and http://www.ndss.org
I’ll pay for your memberships, just send me your address and I’ll have the information sent to you every month so that you can start getting the real facts.
I am sorry you feel the way you do. I would have to disagree with you. It seems to me that far more costly to society is ignorance and hate. That is what is behind most crime and that is far more costly than expenses incurred from medical treatment.
I guess one would have to ask, would you consider your life worth saving if you lost a limb or your memory in a car crash? Since a person born without a limb is disabled, you’d now be disabled. As well, without a memory you would be unable to function in a high paying career and would need assistance. So, where does life lose its value with you?
I would say that all life has value and the things one can learn from having a child or sibling or friend with a disability will make you a better person. I will even go so far as to say that even your life has value. I completely disagree with nearly every word you ‘speak’ but I know that my God and Saviour died for your sins, not just mine. So, on that note I would fight to save your life, just as He did.
I guess until you’ve had your own child and realised the unconditional love they give you won’t understand about fighting to save a life. I hope that one day you will have someone love you so purely and unconditionally you will want to fight for their life. Once you’ve felt that kind of love you don’t ever want to let it go.
So, whilst the things you have said, once again, are hurtful and filled with hate and ignorance, you don’t and can’t make me angry. Your ignorance can not change the way God made me. But it can bring me to my knees to pray for you. It is more than pity I have for you, it is compassion for you clearly have proven that the only love you have ever had was filled with conditions.
May God bless you.
Go Denny!! I can hardly find the words to describe what I feel about you. I have a wonderful thriving joy filled almost 3 year old child with Downs. He is the light of our lives. Including his 8 year old brothers life! We know that there will be challanges in life for him and for us, but he is OUR SON!!! Regardless of his “disabilities” and his “challenges” we will always love him and be there for him, no matter his age or how great his challenges may become. I can not wait to see him grow and help him grow into a wonderful young and eventually old man! If that means I take care of MY SON until he passes one day, that is what having any child means. Just because he has Down’s doesn’t make him any more or less OUR SON and part of our family. Just because he has Downs doesn’t mean he should be abborted or doesnt mean they will be violent, sullen or any other the other terrible things you have said about these wonderful HUMAN BEINGS!!!
IDOIT!!!!
Some one commented that they wish you a chid with Down syndrome. NO..you dont’ deserve to have any children.
I agree with Denny. Go and get yourself educated.
Roberto Sarrionandia = moron + neo-con – true constitutionalist = embarrassment to any true capitalist
I read this article and felt sick to my stomach.
I am a pro-choice woman…very much so. However…I dont look at that position, as allowing science to “weed out” what you and others may find incomprehensible.
What exactly fuels your ideas? I really am not trying to be rude…but your entire post is an insult to many people. Some are anti abortion…some pro choice..some with children and yes…adults with disabilities.
What happens down the road when Science can tell us who will get cancer and end up costing the system the money? Do we abort then too?
Please …get a grip.
Soylent Green…
Logan’s Run…
David V…
Buddy, I hope you never become less than the perfect person, through either accident or genetics. But then again, karma is a fickle thing, and I’m sorely afraid the deck is heavily stacked against you.
Someone said they wished you to have a child with Down Syndrome, well, you aren’t lucky or fortunate enough to be able to love someone that special! God would never allow you to have the HONOR of having a child with Down’s…EVER!
You are an absolute idiot. In order to speak intelligently about a topic that you obviously have little true knowledge of, is almost impossible, and in your case, ridiculous. It is condescending and arrogant closed-minded individuals like yourself who make things harder on people living with disabilities. I am proud of my daughter and her great accomplishments thus far. She is within the “typical” range in ALL areas of skills and development, and will never be institutionalized, but instead grow up to be a positive and productive member of society. You obviously have no idea how to do that- so perhaps you should begin writing about your own ignorance and shortcomings, of which I am sure you would never run out of. I bet there would be TONS of posts for that!
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Where shall I begin? I have read all of your posts regarding Down syndrome. Obviously, you have no knowledge of the condition. You should actually do some research before opening your mouth and inserting your foot.
On the note that Down syndrome is a “disorder”… you, dear little boy (I only call you that because you are in serious need of an education and should return to elementary school), have a spelling disorder. I found several grammatical errors in your posting. Quote -“Disorder” means a condition which is unhealthy or detrimental to life as a human being.- Therefore, according to your own “editorial”, your life as a human being is “detrimental” and “unhealthy.”
I understand your limited view of those with Down syndrome. Being from the former Soviet Union, you are of the belief that there is no greater being than the Supreme Soviet. There is no such thing as a miracle, you either spontaneously combusted or evolved from a chimpanzee. God, since He does not exist, had nothing to do with your creation. Was it your father’s blatant abuse of Vodka that caused your ignorance? Your mother, although probably beaten on a daily basis, should have had an amniocentesis to discover the diagnosis. The death of your fetus would not have been missed. Oh, but wait, the testing for ignorant adults has not been created yet. Damn….
Your family “suffers” from the horrible disorder of prejudice. Apparently, it is hereditary and you, your wife, your children and any family members should be sterilized in order to lessen the odds of such a horrible trait. It is undesirable and should not be allowed to continue. You apparently are detrimental to society and need to be locked up in the same basement or institution you claim those with Down syndrome need to be. You breed hate.
You know nothing of truth, justice and the American way. Your words are fictitious and a fragment of your limited imagination. You grew up in a country where there is no justice, hence your need to infect our country. And the American Way is not to institutionalize those blessed by God. Sorry to be the one to inform you of this little truth, but the American justice system institutionalizes those with a history of such hatred as yours. In fact, we tend to use the death penalty.
I know that in the Ukraine, those with Down syndrome do tend to have shortened life spans. They are locked up in institutions and refused medical care. They have no choice but to die. Sadly, this did not happen to you as a child. Your stupidity is incurable, but yet, you were allowed to live. What irony! You have never seen an adult with Down syndrome, as there are none in your country of origin.
Since you now reside in Texas, I highly recommend that you attend the state’s Summer Special Olympics. There you will see numerous adults with Down syndrome who are a much better member of society than you will EVER dream of being.
What a pathetic excuse for a human being you are David all self righteous and indignant. Dont you see how sad you are? You think just because your brainwashed little liberal mind can put two words together to create a rational thought that you are suddenly a subject matter expert on Down Syndrome or any other subject? The fact is that you don’t have the first clue of what it’s like to have child with a disability, and how amazing it is to see them overcome those disabilities to grow up to be the most amazing people you will ever meet but thankfully for all of us we never will because you’re to scared to recognize the true beauty of these special people, instead you wallow in you pathetic excuse for a life with the pea brain of Nazi. Good luck with your sad little life and please stay away from people that are enjoying their lives to the fullest without hatred and cynicism.
You are a monster.
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I am a mother of a adult with down syndrome. She is still darling. Everyone loves her and she loves everyone. If she could choose a pill to make her down syndrome go away…she wouldn’t do it. She loves her life! You are an idiot! You should really take the American Way off your title. Cause your not American.
You are a jackass!!! Actually I don’t idol my daughter or look to her as a religious icon. I believe in God. I do not know of anyone that locks their child in the basement. You are a freakin idiot!
The more you write about Down’s syndrome the more you reveal about how little you actually know about it. I just don’t understand why someone would want to be seen to be reveling in their own ignorance.
“Pain, frustration, violence, and expense” can be brought into the world by plenty of “normal” children, so once the Downs kids are gone, who will be next on your docket? It occurs to me that you have no statistics at all to back up your assertions. Not all adults with Downs go on to homelessness or institutionalization, as has been proven by the parents of adults with Downs who have written to you here. They are not pets who are discarded once they have “lost their charm” when they grow up. No one who has ever had a child would make the mistake of equating him / her with an animal. I wonder why you say we should cherish them after they are born, but not before? By your standards, why should we cherish anyone who does not meet your standards for being human? You lack perspective and compassion. All you have accomplished here is to prove that in this wonderful free land of ours, everyone is entitled to their own uninformed, stupid opinion.
David, I have a feeling that you don’t have a disability, otherwise at the very least, you probably wouldn’t be so quick to condemn mothers who knowingly bring people with disabilities into the world. I know many people with disabilities and none of them show any sign of wanting to die, or wishing they were never born. Walk up to one of them, and tell them how horrible their parents were for bringing someone with their condition into the world and they will hate you for it, and see you as a monster. I will repeat myself, based on your logic, we could just as easily argue that mothers who know, they are about to give birth to people with disabled child should be forced against their will into having abortions. Would you support that? Neither your “The One Minute Case for Designer Babies” or the follow up you wrote to your Down Syndrome post, even attempt to refute my that objection. What’s more you’re guilty of fallaciously assuming that the birth of someone with a disability is always a net loss. There are many historical figures of great importance who did a great deal of good, and had exactly the kind of things, (some of them born with their condition) that you would consider a disability.
Oh, and by the way, these two objections of mine, are just as valid, regardless of weather or not one has the right to voluntarily have an abortion in the first place.
I am a mom with a child with Down syndrome, and I am very angry and sad as find people like you, with a high level of ignorance, here I will attach a paragraph from an article about this topic. Honestly I never read more stupidity and ignorance together as I read on your article.
People with Down syndrome can develop an emotional intelligence similar to those not affected by this condition, except that learning is slower than their peers. In this sense and with a more holistic perspective, it is not exact said that people with Down syndrome have a “mental deficiency”, considering that these deficiencies are cognitive not affective (5).
Author: Dr. JosĂ© MarĂa Figueroa S. Resident Family Medicine PUC
Soy una mama con una niña con sĂndrome de down y me pone muy enfadada y triste encontrar gente como usted con un alto grado de ignorancia, aquĂ le adjunto el párrafo de articulo sobre el tema. Sinceramente nunca habĂa leĂdo más estupideces e ignorancia juntas como las que leĂ en su artĂculo.
“Las personas con SĂndrome de Down pueden desarrollar una inteligencia emocional de manera similar a aquellas no afectadas por esta condiciĂłn, salvo que su aprendizaje es más lento que el de sus pares. En este sentido y con una perspectiva más integral, no es exacto argumentar que las personas con SĂndrome de Down tienen una “deficiencia mental”, considerando que sus carencias son de tipo cognitivo y no afectivo (5)”
Autor: Dra. MarĂa JosĂ© Figueroa S. Residente Medicina Familiar PUC
Adriana Toro, PROUD mother of a girl with Down Syndrome
To all who read this thread. It may help to understand where the origins of David’s ideas and those like him come from. I recently read an excellent book: “10 Books That Screwed Up the World: And 5 Others That Didn’t Help” by Benjamin Wiker which provides the background that will help us to understand the origins of David’s disease.
I encourage anyone who reads this thread to get this book and read it, then pass it on. It’s time for true science and devotion to following the truth no matter where it leads us to bring about a reformation and renaissance of thought or we will may bring on our own judgement as societies down through the ages have.
p.s. I am the father of an 18 year old son who has five loving sisters, all younger than him – the eldest of these auditioned and was recently accepted to the Boston Ballet’s Summer Intensive program and is a straight A student. All indications are that her sisters will likely excel in their pursuits as well. Sometimes life circumstances defy logic and if we’re brutally honest, we have to accept that there’s a bigger logic out there than what our little minds can conceive.
enthusiastically,
mark
I forgot to write that my son has Autism.
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I was appalled when I read your site. I can’t believe someone in their right mind could ever suggest that a disability was a tradgedy. You have obviously never been around someone with a disability before because if you had these thoughts would have never come to play. My daughter has down syndrome and its been the best thing we could ever ask for. I know and have worked with many adults with down syndrome and they are the most kind, free-spirited people I have ever met. At first I thought you should be ashamed of yourself but now I just feel sorry for you. Sorry that you have not been blessed with someone with down syndrome in your life. I encourage you to volunteer at the special olympics and get to know the people with disabilities that you speak so lowly of. You never know they could become your best friends.
You were right: based on the way people reacted to this article, they do act as if DS is a condition to be worshipped or thought of as a gift or a special blessing from the gods. This shows you the state of our culture. Why is a crippling condition thought of as a virtue? What ideas could make one want to choose to make a human being exist with DS when it doesn’t have to be so? Why is allowing to come into existence such a human being regarded as a virtue and not an evil, cruel thing to do to a human being?
Jeff,
I’ll ask you the same question, I’ve asked David.
Should people like Palin be forced against their will into having abortions, if we know their about to give birth to a baby with down Syndrome, or any other disability?
Damien,
No, the individual should not be forced to have such a thing done to her. An individual should have complete control of the use and disposal of his or her body and its functions. This means that no other person or entity can or should dictate that to the individual.
Jeff
Jeff,
Than how is the choice to bring someone with down syndrome into the world evil, and if you agree with David’s reasoning, how can it be equivalent to rape to as he claims?
You are an idiot. I hope you do not reproduce.
Meg,
I don’t know if you are addressing me or David, but either way, insult is not a valid argument. Why should I care if you think I’m an idiot? It says nothing about the truth or falsehood of anything I wrote.
David,
I am hoping to change your mind but am aware I don’t have control over others. I am not only the parent of an adult with ds. I am the foster parent. He has changed my life and calmed me considerably. He does not speak but he has taught me to listen with my heart. I thank God everyday for bringing him to me. His parents are dead. My angel makes me laugh everyday. He volunteers by passing water at a nursing home. He does meals on wheels and brings a smile to the faces of most people that are fortunate enough to meet him.
I am sorry you are unable to see the beauty in someone like my angel. I hope something in your life happens to soften your heart. We are all one. God makes nothing that isnt perfect . That includes you and others that think like you. When you realize you are part of the same soul as everyone else maybe you will learn to love.There is enough for everyone.Just believe it.
Although Veksler is a bit objectivoid and therefor weird, most of the people making comments are just being emotive and stupid. I suspect Heinlein has more to do with his views than the fact that he is Ukranian. While I don’t agree that it is ‘obvious’ that people should abort various genetic abnormalities of this sort, I certainly wouldn’t blame them for doing so. What’s more, not engineering out these issues (if it’s technically feasible) is just stupid. Human enhancement ought to be a foregone conclusion for anyone concerned with not living in the present world of idiots, which includes preventing and/or engineering out serious mental and physical disabilities. That is not to say we ought to execute retards, but it does mean that someone deliberately siring an ape is not exactly contributing.
Being amoral myself, I don’t really have any horses in this race. But for people who can’t respond with anything other than ‘you are so stupid’ or ‘Ukranians hate life’, STFU.
Dear David (if thats really your name)
I believe you are a very ignorant person, who apparently hasn’t done very much research, or spent any time at all with adults with down syndrome. I would guess you are still living in the past because all you have to do is look around and see there are many adults with down syndrome that are living full lives with joy and purpose. Also, like another wrote, just go visit a special olympics event in your area (where a disguise) and witness the countless adults with not only downs but many other disabilities. Get enlightened brother!
But I would also guess that you really don’t care what people think of you. This blog is clearly a cry for attention, you probably have a lot of needs that are unmet, and this is the only way you can satisfy the deep longing for acceptance that you crave. It is kind of a sad reality for you indeed.
Just to put some goodness out to counteract your negative spirit I’d like you to know that we know 3 adults personally that have down syndrome. One is 29, Karen Gaffney, she travels the world on speaking engagements to promote inclusion. We meet her and she is remarkable. Another who is 18, Emily D., she is living and working in a law firm in Virginia, a very happy young lady, well mannered, poised, and content. Lastly, Heather C. is 17 that is a wiz at sign language, works with little children to teach them sign, she getting ready to graduate from high school and attend college in a program called Options. Heather too is articulate, beautiful, engaging and very happy.
If you really wanted to know the truth, you would look for it, and see there are countless others. But my guess is you don’t really want the truth because that would end your negative blogging.
While it may be true that some are in dire straights, so many more are not, and if everyone felt like you, the world might very well be a very dark place. I do want to say that am glad that you are the minority.
We have a little one with Down Syndrome, I won’t bother going into details trying to convince you she is an angel because I am sure you don’t really care. But I will tell you that we do bare all the costs associated with her life – – just like all parents of all children do, and our plan is to give her everything humanly possible to help her succeed in spite of people like you.
Children come in all shapes and sizes, my guess is you weren’t perfect either. But your family chose to keep you and I am glad they did because you no doubt have the potential to do really good things in this life. I hope at some point you will choose to do good things in this life.
I also hope someone is praying for you, because when you approach the gates of heaven, you may have trouble. Your time on earth that was spent in this negative manner may be a very eye opening experience for you and you may be very disappointed.
My guess is, you don’t believe in God either, so I am going to pray for you.
One thing to add, I viewed your site for your upcoming wedding and I noticed that your bride used to teach in a Montessori School. She no doubt understands the need for inclusion and acceptance. Montessori was created for children with down syndrome and children with special needs.
So how about that…
I believe there is hope for you.
Good luck in your new life and may God bless your marriage.
I don’t think it’s very feasable for all fetuses to be tested for Down’s Syndrome. Who would pay for the testing? Who would pay for the therapy for the mothers who would be then be obligated to undergo abortion? Who says these kids/adults live horrible lives and must be spared?
Hi Lunacie,
Thanks for a calm and intelligent comment.
> Who would pay for the testing?
I don’t think the testing is any more expensive than any of the other dozens of prenatal tests that mothers in Western countries undergo. If they are willing to do that much for the sake of their children’s health, I think they will do one more, now that it is safe and cheap.
>Who would pay for the therapy for the mothers who would be then be obligated to undergo abortion?
Therapy for what? And who suggested that mother’s would be “obligated” to have abortions? Abortion is a personal choice.
> Who says these kids/adults live horrible lives and must be spared?
No one, but I say that they would live healthier and happier lives – and so would their parents if they grew up healthy.
I have been reading all these nasty posts to you and apologise for the writers on their behalf. You ARE entitled to your opinion – that IS what makes this a free speech country to begin with. I tend to somewhat agree with you (Not about DS kids ’cause most have been mainstreamed and taught to serve some function) but about some children who are so severely handcapped that they will never be able to function without help. My husband teaches these types of children (example: one student was born with 1/2 a brain and would consistently bang his head on the wall of the classroom without provocation) and he has loved and adored every one of his students including the violent one with half a brain. He, like most of your objectors, thinks everyone has a purpose in life and a reason for existence. I, myself, would have aborted a child (even at 9 months!) if I found out they were that severely handcapped and would be a leech on society. And we are happily married lol…. We allow each other to own their own opinions and do not try to enforce our own viwpoints upon each other. Maybe some of the people who have responded to your blog ought to try that sometime – the world would certainly be a heck of a lot more peaceful!
I just happened upon this website while searching what to get a 39 yr. old Down Syndrome boy for Christmas, and God only knows why I ended up here! I am the mother of this 39yr.old and he has brought so much joy to my life and someone like you could never understand the meaning of LOVE! No it has not been easy at times we had our struggles, but there is no way on earth I would have ever wanted him any different! He is not a burden to society, he lives at home with his parents, he goes everywhere we do, he eats out in restaurants, bowls, goes to the movies, etc. he can and does do about everything we do. Yes he needs help with life skills but so what! He can’t manage money , read or write but so what!He didn’t go to college or highschool, but so what!. From the sounds of it you are an angry and unloving human being. You should have more compassion for people with dissabilities! I don’t have much compassion for someone like you, and I don’t have much compassion for people who are strung out on drugs and fried their brain by choice! They are the ones who are draining on our society, they are the ones under the bridges and asking for handouts. I don’t know what your problem is , but you are against the wrong group of people, God put these people in our lives and we are to take care of them, he didn’t put the drug addicts and others whom choose to destroy their brains themselves in our lives to be taken care of! You need to do some furthur study’s of our society!
Damien,
The choice of whether to bring an individual with Down’s Syndrome into the world or not rightfully belongs to the individual, not the state. Now, that a person would consciously do such a thing is a different matter. Is it right or wrong? (I preveiously used the term “evil” and “cruel” in discussing the matter.) Let me now elaborate on this point. Between the the pregnant woman and the fetus, it is the woman that has the right to decide what form of life, if any, she will permit to come into existence. If she chooses to have a baby with Down’s Syndrome that is entirely up to her. Whether her choosing to have a baby with Down’s is morally good or bad (under which “evil” falls) depends on her reason for doing so. There may be rational reasons for a woman to have the baby. However, “Because the gods say so,” is not one of them. In my view, such reasoning (or, more appropriately, lack thereof) is monstrous.
Now, getting back to the point of your question, although I regard such a decision as wrong, not all forms of wrong (even “evil”) are matters in which the state can properly intervene.
I think you are totally 1000% wrong in this factor. you have NO right in any form as to say if Special needs children should be brought into this world. they are the people who keep life interesting. give meaning to life. who care! unlike people like yourself! After reading your article in class at school. the students voted 100% that you are just like Hitler!. you do not care for anyone who is ” less important” then you are. you think that because people are not “normal” that they should be exterminated! well here is a new flash for you
******PEOPLE WITH DOWN SYNDROME AND OTHER SPECIAL NEEDS ARE HUMAN *******
so deal with it! don’t tell others what to do. i have not met one single person with special needs that are violent or disturbed. they are all very sweet! and more lovable than most ‘normal’ humans as some people would like to put it. well if you want to talk normal and special needs.. who is to deside what is normal…for all we know we might be the people with the special needs and the people with Down Syndrome and CP and Autism and any other form of ‘special needs’ are the normal. we are the odd ones who need to learn lessons..
my parents did not know that they were going to have a Child with Downs syndrome. and even if they did. they would of kept him. My brother is the best thing that could ever happen to this family. he is in school with other kids his age. he has a loving supporting family and friends who LOVE him for who he is. people don’t care about what he has. he walked up to police officers at a coffee shop and they joked with him. played with him. He is a perfect stranger and these cops who were on duty, recognized that he has something special about him. My brother is a friend to all and everyone excepts him.
i think the problem today is the people who don’t have support. people who hear people like you talk and think that ” maybe this is more trouble then what its worth”. but let me tell you. having a special needs child in your home may be a bit more physical work then a ‘normal’ child but they are more understanding, more loving, more caring, and they seem to have more instincts about whats wrong or right. they know that life is a gift and not something that can be taken if someone else doesn’t want you to live.
a fetus no matter how young it is when someone desires to abort it. would of grown to become a beautiful child, someone who would be overjoyed for a little attention and love. someone who would like to be given a chance to live.
put yourself in the shoes of one of these “special needs” children. would you not of wanted to have a chance to live? to spread some love around? to show others how to be truly happy? to have a life? to maybe experience what is like to fall in love? to have a heart break because someone you loved died?
GET A LIFE! stop thinking about stupid things like ” if we exterminate all the people with special needs ( like we exterminate the bugs in our house) this world would be a better place” Well it will not be!!.. the sane people would go insane! because they have nobody who truly care for and listens to them . there is only a few people who will accept anyone for who they are!and people with special needs are the majority of them
this is proven by articles like the one you wrote you do not care for anyone but yourself! Stop being so selfish and think of how others feel! and what others would like for a change!
I just ran across this site and the letter by the Ukrainian. We had a wonderful daughter with Down Syndrome. Unfortunately she passed away 24 March 2010 due to complications of a seizure. I am so thankful for the many lessons she taught us! I miss her so much that sometimes I wonder if I can go on without her. She was blind, autistic, DS, had seizures and could not talk. I would not have traded her for any ‘normal’ child. I will always be grateful that we had her in our lives. She was loved by everyone around her and at her workshop.
By the way, her sister adopted two children from the Ukraine three years ago. As ‘healthy’ children they certainly came with a lot of problems but we love them as if they were our
own. All children are God’s children and should be treated that way! Sharron
I keep re-reading this post, certain that if only I read it one more time, I will finally find the clue that proves it is not a vitreous, nauseating diatribe on the worthlessness of individuals, but merely a Horatian satire, albeit not nearly as well written as Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”.
I must say, although I’m sure you fancy yourself some sort of expert on…well, probably everything given the amount of ego bursting the seams of this single post, your research skills are sorely lacking. One doesn’t have to search too hard to find story after story of adults with Down syndrome living wonderful, fulfilling lives—and they manage to do it without stooping to decry another segment of the population as worthless.
I would much rather sit in a room full of them than a room full of you. Of course, your behemoth ego would leave little space for anyone else, wouldn’t it?
Heck lighten up. My boys have disabilities all have autism & one with DS too and they are all Great:-))). The first thing you do is accept kids as they are. You don’t pine after any sterile icon like these people who seem to try and dominate the agendas. Randians, Eugenicists, Social Darwinists or just plain Sociopaths I don’t care they are all wrong. You Trash another and you trash yourself. Perhaps you’d like to birth a truly iconic Serial Killer like a Global Leader (or lackey of another) who causes a World War. Smile on that! Let’s be Nice to Each other but 100% intolerant of our Global Elite fiends:-)))
How pitiful you are, Hitler, Jr. There are no tests to conclusively determine mental retardation before birth. DS and mental retardation are not the same. You have truly shown your ignorance. Apparently, according to your opinion, your mother should have aborted you.
This is a completely useless post. The only purpose is serves is to inflame and upset people who love children and adults with Down syndrome. Their lives have value and purpose. Sure, abortion is a way out of caring for a child with disabilities. That is a loss of life that could have loved a mother and father completely and unconditionally. (How often does love like that happen to people, David?) A loss of life that could have given parents and siblings a purpose greater than themselves. This life of ours is the only one we have. Unfortunately, the world doesn’t choose to educate people about the benefits (you heard right — benefits) that having a child with disabilities can give a family. Yes, abortion is a choice, but a poor one indeed.
Wow! Skimmed the article bc I don’t allow that much hate to infiltrate my brain… the only comment I have is: your parents didn’t abort you and there is something definitely wrong with your mentality even if it doesn’t involve a chromosome!
I have a daughter with DS whom I chose to adopt because her mother didn’t want her. She tried to abort her but was told that the twin brother may be accidentally aborted instead so THANKFULLY she chickened out on the table. I do not treat her as a god, but I can guarantee she shows more love and affection than you could ever give on a normal day, to a ‘normal’ individual.
DS is not a blessing – agree with that one. You purposefully use harsh language, but with this judgmental attitude, better have all your facts right.
However, here are the facts you got WRONG:
– Most parents do not “plan on” not aborting and having DS children. Even in most parts of the developed world (as a fellow eastern European, I love this expression!), non-invasive screening was not available until very recently. The needle biopsy carries a 1% spontaneous abortion risk, and can be performed at 16-20 weeks of the pregnancy (pretty late, just ask anyone). Imagine a family, after several miscarriages they might not take this risk, after all, having a DS pregnancy is less probable.
The test is not recommended by MDs for low-risk groups, i.e. women under 35. Most DS babies are born to low-risk parents who don’t want to risk aborting a healthy baby.
So not much basis to blame most parents, that’s the point.
(A non-invasive technology might be on its way in the US, or -maybe- already available. It’s not available in eastern Europe yet, that’s for sure.)
– Many DS people are sterile – most men are, and there are very few babies born to DS women – so your fear of ruining humanity’s gene pool makes no sense.
– Many disabled children / adults and their families suffer unnecessarily because of purposefully cruel attitudes even in the “developed world”, not to mention other places (e.g. look around in Russia during your next trip) – encouraging this “treatment” through articles like yours is irresponsible. You claim that you are a thinking person – many sociopaths will just feel justified after reading your lines.
You are a disgusting human.
Let’s hope someday when you have dementia and are a burden on society, that people see you as a worthless piece of crap and try to exterminate you from the human race.
Hey David, did you know that there was a really cool guy named Adolf Hitler and that he pretty much felt the same way about Down Syndrome kids.
In essence, Mr. Hitler called those “adorable children” with Down Syndrome “worthless life” and he had them all thrown in the gas chamber.
There’s a novel idea David to your Down Syndrome issue. Why don’t you write to the Democrat Party of America and tell them of what a great idea Adolf Hitler had for adorable babies with Down Syndrome.
After all. Both you and Adolf both believe that kiddles with Down Syndrome are “life not worth living.”
Lots of ad hominem and Christian Nazi analogies here, I see. Nazi eugenics is holding that a very specific set of genes is superior, denying the value of plurality. That does not follow from the argument here. The point is simply this: that if at first you are to put a new person to the world, it is better if that person does not have Down’s. This applies to all life quality reducing conditions. So that if upon learning that the fetus has the condition you do not choose to abort and start over, you are in effect choosing a child with Down’s over one which does not. This is not saying that all should be the same like the eugenics accusation suggests. It is also not saying that people with Down’s syndrome does not have value, that they are not loveable, or that their lives are not worth living. It is not even claiming that a person with Down’s syndrome necessarily suffers at all. Only that he or she probably will. All these people who “know a person with Down’s” bring nothing to the argument.
Thank you for posting what so many of us think but are afraid to mention for fear of being thought of as discriminatory towards persons with special needs. If there’s any way to avoid their life of physical suffering (high incidents of leukemia, skeletal problems, heart surgeries, epileptic seizures) and mental, as you rightly say, “incomprehensibility” of the world, then that step should be taken. I would strongly advise any couple who is considering having a baby with Down Syndrome to instead terminate the pregnancy right away.