Pro-down syndrome: a moral atrocity

Mimpy posted on the OO forum regarding an outrageous new movement: Pro-Down syndrome:

Summary: Down syndrome is a debilitating disease, which is characterized by an extra chromosome developed after conception. Doctors can test for this syndrome, but previously the test (amniocentesis) was found to increase the chances of miscarriage. Thus, only pregnant women over 35 were tested. Science has recently discovered a way to test for Down syndrome that inflicts no harm on the mother or baby. It makes sense now for every pregnant woman to be tested to see if her fetus is carrying the extra chromosome. Parents of children currently stricken with Down syndrome are unhappy with this technological advancement, however. Since 90% of woman already abort their pregnancies after discovering their fetuses will grow into babies with this disease, these parents (rightfully) suspect that with the new testing capabilities, there will be far less people with Down syndrome in the future. This worries them because then there won’t be many others like their own children. Tolerance, awareness, and funding will all decrease because there will be less people with Down syndrome. To reverse this, these parents are encouraging couples who find out their fetuses are carrying the 21st chromosome that being the parent of a child with Down syndrome isn’t that bad of an idea.

Essentially, these parents actually want more human beings with Down syndrome on the planet. Instead of trying to find a solution to this problem, they are encouraging others to produce beings that are not well suited for human life. They cannot enjoy to the same level the things that you and I enjoy, such as independence, strong romantic relationships, etc. These parents’ notion seems backward and downright evil to me. I don’t know anybody who would wish for a child with a disability. But these parents do. Their children suffer, so they want other children to suffer, as well…so their children will have friends and feel close to others like them. The person who is best adapted to life has the best chances of surviving. How anyone can want someone below normal is beyond me.

It is one thing to have a child born with a disability that you did not know about. At that point, you have a choice: you can either support the child yourself if you can (emotionally, monetarily, etc.) or you can give it up for adoption. But there is no way that anybody can actually be glad that their child is sub-normal. It can work out eventually, of course. But the initial desire for a less than perfect child (physically, at least) is impossible.

What is next? Should I get polio because kids in India have it and they might get lonely? It is a backwards and ridiculous idea.

Every child should be loved and valued – but a fetus is not a child until he or she is born – and what kind of monster do you have to be to want your children to suffer their entire life? Only the religious dogma behind the hypocritical “culture of life” is capable of sinking people to this level.

Update: I wrote a response to the comments on this post.

77 Comments

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77 Responses to Pro-down syndrome: a moral atrocity

  1. TR

    David: I’m glad you’re showing people that being a luddite ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.

    But I also wanted to ask you about a comment you left on the brooding omnipresence. Please don’t answer me if you think I don’t care what you say. I do.

    Do you think it is as morally evil to allow a severely handicapped person to continue to live as it is to allow a fetus that will be handicapped to be born?

    Under current law, protected life begins at viability. Is that a bad idea?

  2. Jeff

    David

    I have no idea why you have decided to pick this subject to rail on and make posts all over the blog world about a subject you know nothing about…..

    But

    Based on your views I presume you do have a living will that says if you are disabled in anyway due to an accident or any other reason that you are to be immediatley euthanized? If you feel really this strongly on this subject and you have not taken this action I have an attorney that will help you.

    You picked the debate subject…..I AM IN! Be glad to take it up in person if you like I can be in Texas tomorrow.

  3. P

    The author of this appears very young and naive.

    To extrapolate that more people with DS are wanted to keep other children company and funding available is absurd.

    To assume that a person with DS can not be independent, romantically involved or enjoy life a level that escapes most people who have 46 chromosomes is ignorance at it’s best.

    To say that someone who accepts what God has given them and to cherish that gift is evil screams juvenile arrogance.

    It is evil to assume the role of God. It is arrogant to assume that one is better than a fellow human being. It is just mindless typing to give an opinon on a path where one has never stepped.

    It is fool hearty to point fingers when five may be pointing back.

  4. I had no idea that objectivists and libertarians in Austin had embraced eugenics so fervently.

    Learn something every day, I suppose.

  5. J. Leo

    Wow, I had no idea that the beautiful little two and a half year old, healthy girl sitting next to me watching Barney, giving hugs and kisses, and giggling chasing the cats was miserable and suffering! I’d better go tell her so she can arrange to be “mercifully euthanized.”

    You obviously never really met a person with DS. You also apparently don’t realize how many people are out there driving their own cars, living on their own and are now beginning to get married. Don’t mess with people who’ve been there and done that and who are seasoned fighters. We just can’t believe there are people out there who feel the way you do. So sad and pathetic.

  6. Nathanielsmom

    I am stunned that you are so eager to let people see how IGNORANT you are. How dare you call our Children less than perfect!! My Son does not SUFFER from Ds, Down syndrome is not a PROBLEM to be solved! My son does the same things as others his age, he enjoys the same things that other 8 yr olds enjoy! He is NOT a burden to anybody! Oh, well ok there is one thing my Son does have and that is a KIND HEART! He would NEVER go out of his way to hurt someone, he is accepting and NON JUDGEMENTAL!! Geeeee wish there were MORE LIKE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. David,

    Once again you are speaking of something you know nothing about. I have a child who has Down Syndrome and I still don’t know everything about it. For you to comment on the blogs of parents who have a child with DS is horrific to say the least.

    I’m not sure that you quite understand why the Down Syndrome community is in an uproar over the latest testing. Are parents of children with DS and others who are compassionate towards Down Syndrome “Pro Down Syndrome”? In a sense yes, but to say that we want or hope that more babies are born with DS is completely ridiculous. Every parent including families that have a child with DS prays that there child is born typical. Now, when my wife gave birth to our third child Amanda, would I have wanted Amanda to be a typical child? Yes. Do I wish now that she was born typical? No, she wouldn’t be my Amanda then. If being Pro Down Syndrome is defined by fighting for the human rights of our children and making sure that they are given the same opportunities that typical children are given, then yes, I am Pro Down Syndrome. BUT, if Pro Down Syndrome suggests that I hope and pray that more pregnancies result in a child with DS, you are sadly mistaken.

    Let’s stop here for a sec. You are obviously pro choice, fine. So this can be categorized as a pro choice / pro life discussion, but you are turning into something else. I suppose that once you are married and decide to have children, if that’s in the cards, you will make sure that your wife has every single available test done on her and the baby to ensure that your idea of a perfect child which is obviously someone like you is living inside her. God help us all. That said, if you don’t like the test results, you’re going to keep on aborting the pregnancy until you’re happy. Good luck finding a woman that will do that for you.

    Moving on……..

    To say that kids/adults with Down Syndrome are suffering and are not well suited for life boggles my mind and reflects your ignorance. I’m not even sure what “well suited for life means”. Just because a child is born with DS doesn’t mean that they are unhealthy or going to suffer for the rest of their lives. It just means that our kids aren’t typical run of the mill kids. They may look a bit different, act a bit different and do things at their own pace, but it doesn’t mean that they are unhealthy or suffering. A child who happens to have Down Syndrome will not have an IQ of 160, and according to your statements, that child is sick and will suffer for the rest of their lives. Does that mean that if there was a test for expecting mothers that predicts the IQ of their baby, every mother should have it done? Now, what if the results didn’t meet the parent’s expectations? Is that a good reason to terminate the pregnancy?

    Please, before you comment on something make sure you have your facts straight. Everyone knew they were in for a ride when they saw that you referred to DS as a disease.

    DOWN SYNDROME IS NOT A DISEASE! Or is it? Don’t stand to close to a person with DS, you might catch it, eeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwww.

    Oh, and kudos to all the comments, including yours David

    David, it seems that you have been stricken with a horrible disease called “Talking Out of Your Ass Disease”. It sounds painful and may not be well suited for life……….anyone got a needle?:)

  8. Noahsmommy

    You, sir, are destined to smoke turds in hell with Satan! You spew your diarhea of the mouth to all those who will listen but you really have no idea what you are talking about! I really think you should take the previous poster up on the offer to meet that lawyer.

  9. Nancy

    And are you perfect? Do you think if your parents had had testing available and they knew how sick and twisted you would turn out to be, that they still would have had you? My child does not suffer from DS. She is not “sub-normal.” She IS perfect. And thank God I have the ability to shelter her from pond scum like you.

  10. Michelle

    You might want to engage in some fact-checking before you go around throwing people away because they aren’t SMART enough for you. Case in point?

    1. The extra chromosome is not developed after conception. It is already present in either the sperm or egg BEFORE conception. If a sperm or egg with an abnormal number of chromosomes merges with a normal mate, the resulting fertilized egg will have an abnormal number of chromosomes. In Down syndrome, 95% of all cases are caused by this event: one cell has two 21st chromosomes instead of one, so the resulting fertilized egg has three 21st chromosomes. Hence the scientific name, trisomy 21.

    2. The new test DOES NOT test for Down Syndrome. It tests certain hormones in the mothers blood for the risk of Down Syndrome. If shown by this test to be high risk an amnio or CVS still has to be done to know for sure.

    Shall we schedule you for termination, based on your…um…lack of knowledge, compassion, heart? Have a nice life. I know we are.

  11. Tony

    Listen up you self righteous SOB, I don’t know where you get off trying to fricken play god, but you pbviously don’t know jack about Down Syndrom, Heres a history lesson for your pea brain. There is more than just trisomy 21, like trisomy 1-20. Infants with trisomy deserve to live just like any other infant does. My son, who loves waching the wiggles, being the happiest son out of the two that i have, does not in any way, shapre or form seem or act miserable. Here is something for your adolecent mind, GROW UP!

    A very proud dad with a son who had trisonmy 21, and would not under any circumstance TRADE him for ANYTHING IN THE WORLD.

  12. Enoch McCarter

    David,
    I am very sad to see you advocate the destruction of human life out of such a shallow and superficial idea of what creates value. You are quite simply, wrong at the top of your lungs.
    Moreover, it does not seem that you absorbed the article in the times very completely. The whole point is that they don’t buy the notion of horrible suffering of downs children. These people are speaking out of a personal understanding of the gains and heartbreaks of a downs syndrome child. It seems that you, sir are speaking out of your hat.

  13. Mattie Rainwater

    David,
    You are pretty emphatic that a fetus is not a baby. Why? As an objectvist, I am a little surprised to hear you so dogmatic on a point of biology and logic. After all fetus is the latin word for…baby.
    When is a fetus a baby? And why? Who draws the line? Where?

  14. b human

    ha….you really are an uneducated person! Have you ever met a PERSON with DS? …and no not just the ones baggin yo’ food or hotel greeters…how about the guy stuck in traffic next to you…or sitting in college algebra…is a child protege still smart at 30…is a DS man a retard if he has his masters or PHD….are you going to be this stupid your whole life?

  15. Ann Spahr

    ALl I can say is your ignorance toward human life in unimaginable in the year 2007.

    I hope you can live with yourself after making such cruel, judgemental comments regarding DS.

    I am speechless & am not even going to waste my time & energy any further by responding to you as I feel any comments would just fall on your deaf ears….I am so sad for you!!!!

  16. Andi

    b human…show me one Down Syndrome person with a PhD! Come on!!! And one of those posters above with the 8-year old son, that 8 year old is very sick i believe. in fact, i believe the boy is tube fed, has a trach, and needs 24/7 care. Come on, don’t be so hard on David. He is on to something!

  17. Obviously the people who have commented prior to myself are responding to the imprecise language used in the post. It probably would have helped if a more clear explanation were used to distinguish between the metaphysically healthy human and the unhealthy; between the natural growth process humans undergo and the “accidental”, unnatural uncertainties that can happen along the way. This is most likely (if I may presume) what David was referring to in his post.

    In fact he does reaffirm that, “Every child should be loved and valued”. If parents didn’t love their children they wouldn’t have them in the first place. Unfortunately what the others chose to ignore was the main point of the argument. That these DS parents were telling others that their children were of value because they were diseased; not in spite of the ailment but because of it. That to be unhealthy is inherently a value. Such a notion is what is disgusting and should be frowned upon.

  18. Nathanielsmom

    Andi,

    Yes my Son does have a trach and is gtube fed, BUT he is the exception when it comes to DS, more “typical” kids have his condition that requires a trach! And NO he does not NEED 24 hr care…We do not have 24 hr care. My Son Loves life, he is energetic, loving and has a wonderful sense of humor!!!! My Son does NOT suffer, He is NOT a burden or a problem to get rid of!!!!! Are you all gonna his the children born with Autisum now? Maybe CP ? Hmmmmm What about children born blind, deaf ? Why dont we just get rid of all who are ” flawed ” !
    YOu POMPAS ASS!!!

  19. Desi

    First of all, if having a PhD is what makes your life worth keeping then only about 2% of the entire human population would be here.

    What about people in impoverished nations that can barely feed and clothe themselves? They can’t afford school of any kind, let alone university degrees. Yet we send money to these nations in an attempt to help them live!

    Secondly, I DO know of people with DS with degrees (one man named Sujeet I believe has a music/arts degree). I know of a girl that is 15 and she has 13 GCSEs (we are from the UK) (more than most typical children).

    I also know a child that was diagnosed with DS ten days after she was born and at six months of age she could identify the letters of the alphabet and her right and left hands, feet, etc. She is amazing. She also has not a single health problem. Her heart is completely normal and she’s never been ill even one day in her entire life. She is completely healthy and very strong and very clever. She is someone that has taught many people more than most other children have.

    As well as, the facts regarding DS have just not been brought to light. The fact is that only about 50% of people with DS have a less than average IQ. Those who have less than average are classified as ‘mild to moderate delay’. It seems that to kill them all would be risking quite a lot.

    I must say this as well. As the Bible says, the wisdom of man is foolishness to God. Those who think that they are so clever and know so much about medicine and science are like children to God, the creator of the universe.

    People refer to DS as a genetic defect. Well, perhaps by God’s design they are genetically different to the rest, but then how else would we recognise His true Angels if not for the markings on their wings?

    May God knock you off your ‘donkey’ as he did Paul in the Bible that you will see His light and then spend the remaining years of your life speaking truth and love, not hate and murder.

  20. Michelle

    Desi, something you said really bothers me.

    As well as, the facts regarding DS have just not been brought to light. The fact is that only about 50% of people with DS have a less than average IQ. Those who have less than average are classified as ‘mild to moderate delay’. It seems that to kill them all would be risking quite a lot.

    So, it is only bad because it risks killing off the “more normal” children, is that what I am hearing?
    Also, most people with DS do have Mental retardation, although there have been more than a few who have tested in the low average range. “…Moderate-to-severe mental retardation occurs, with an IQ range of 20-85 (mean IQ is approximately 50)…” Source: emedicine. One point here: To have an IQ range with a mean of 50, means that 50% of those have an IQ of 50 and above, which in turn means that half have IQ’s intelligence scores in the Mild developmental disability range. Regardless of measures taken to try to ascertain anyones intelligence, IQ is variable in children who have speech and language issues. In my own child, IQ scores fluctuated by MANY points due to different test protocols and testing environments. My point? IQ is not a defining aspect of who a human being is, nor a gauge by which we should judge their contribution to society. My child happens to have a high IQ and fall in the low average range. My friend’s child happens to be impacted by medical issues and have an IQ that shows as much lower. BOTH have value as human beings, BOTH have immeasurable qualities that bring them joy and tremendous love. And BOTH deserve the same chance to life.

  21. I love reading things that people like you write. You are precisely the pathetic individual that loves to incite rage and bully others. You are the individual who was probably the fattest, ugliest, most learning delayed person in school, and now that you discovered that a even a complete moron such as yourself can keep a blog, you have found your answer to getting back at everyone else you can. You are certainly someone with an iq of probably less than 100, and are working in an office, working for others, drinking at bars every night, addicted to internet porn, hooking up with anyone you can pay to be with you, leading a miserable life, wishing you were better looking, more successful, smarter, more driven, healthier, and more of a man. You probably recently realized that you will never mean anything to anyone, that you have no one in your life who genuinely likes or respects you, that you serve no purpose in this world, and that your life is a complete waste. I love people like you, you give people like me a reason to hate, however I don’t hate you at all! I feel only sorrow and pity for how bad the world must treat you every single day of your life, that I can only wish you help and sympathy. I wish you help the same way I would for a dying child, because the only difference between you and a dying child is that you are already dead, someone killed you early on, someone must have abused the hell out of you early on, the only problem is, you still live inside a body, but your soul is surely gone. I know you are dead on the inside, and based on your appearance, which is disgusting, the world probably treats you terribly. Be sure to get your teeth fixed when you get an extra buck. It’s funny how Karma is though, just when you least expect it, WHAM, It’s going to smack you right in your very ugly face! Remember, God is fair man, God is fair! Sometimes I really do wonder why mom’s didn’t abort, you are the reason! My 2-1/2 year old, healthy, vibrant, bright, gorgeous, funny, happy, perfect son with DS, is 100 times brighter and more worthy of living than you will ever be!

  22. Andi

    At 6 months she could recite the alphabet?

    Please, making up lies just proves you have no case. Kids with DS can learn, they just learn more slowly. However, around 9-10, they stop learning. That is why it is RARE for a DS kid to get a diploma, they get a certificate. A certificate that proves they can make change for the bus, maybe make a ham sandwich, perhaps mac and cheese?

    The poster above said he knew someone with DS who had a PhD. That is a lie. Prove it. No, having a PhD doesn’t mean happiness, but again, why lie?

    It is heartbreaking for kids with DS. I have witnessed it. Yes, until about the 2nd grade they are included, other kids don’t realize the difference. But around 3rd grade, they drop off. No more birthday party invites, no playdates, it is over. And it doesn’t stop there. If I am so wrong, why do 90-95% of women choose to abort? Are WE ALL awful murderers? Maybe we do not want our children to suffer in such a tough world. Heck, normal kids suffer in out competitive society. Why bring a child in to the world with such a disability?

  23. Pingback: Truth, Justice, and the American Way » Follow up on my Down syndrome post

  24. Jeff

    Andi

    Take a look in the mirror as you are also making up facts that are not true.

    Kids with ds stop learing at 9-10…give me a break as that is just out and out false.

  25. P

    Andi

    You are inaccurate and uninformed. My two daughters, who don’t have DS, have people at their high school and middle school with DS. Both of the DS girls have complete inclusion and the middle schooler is the top of her history class. The senior is going to graduate this year with a proper diploma and in anticipating going to college come fall.

    I have many more examples but fear they would fall to blind eyes.

    It is hard for me to see my beautiful baby smile, roll over and interact as much as a four month old can with her siblings as “something” that should have been aborted.

    There is a book written by two gentlemen with DS. It is called “Count Us In” They talk of their lives we DS. Maybe it would help you realize that the extra chromosome doesn’t equate with misery which should be rectified with death.

    Maybe you should ask someone with DS if they wish they were dead.

  26. Artemis

    The bottom line is if my fetus I am carrying was tested positive for DS, I would abort it in a heartbeat. Apparently same would 9 out of 10 women.

    Let me ask those of you with DS-afflicted kids this question: if there was a “cure” (or whatever) for DS, would you let your child take it? And what do you think your child would want?

    And by the way, “God’s design” doesn’t count as an argument.

  27. P

    Artemis – have you ever seen an aborted fetus?

    Have you ever felt a baby move in your womb?

  28. Andi

    What is it that only people with DS kids, seem to know these Down Syndrome superstars? All the people I know with Down’s either live at home, or in a supervised center. They might be lucky and work bagging groceries, or stuffinf envelopes. I own my company and we outsource some of our work to an organization that works with people with dev. disabilites, and it is heartbreaking.

    Even if one Down’s gets a degree, that is a one in a million chance, maybe less. 350,000 babies are born afflicted with DS. It is heartbreaking. I am so sick of the miltiant downs moms telling everyone else that we don’t know true love, just cause our eggs or sperm didn’t make a mistake. That is what DS is. A mistake. If we can fix it, we should. Blind people have full lives, have kids, get real jobs (not grocery bagging, envelope stuffing, or sweeping up dog clippings). So do deaf people.

    And yes, kids stop learning around 9-10. That is why most kids with DS have a max of a 4th grade reading level, if that.

    Go visit any of the DS blogs. Listen to their kids talk. Even the best speakers talks like a have a mouth full of marbles. Lest us not forget the leukemia that many get, the heart problems, the weight problems, the GI problems, then the brain problems. Wow, where do I sign up?

  29. P

    Robert Southey
    How little do they see what is, who frame their hasty judgments upon that which seems.

  30. Desi

    Andi, first of all, YOU aren’t able to read so I have to wonder if you are worthy of life by your definition. I said ‘at six months of age she could IDENTIFY the letters of the alphabet and her right and left hands, feet, etc.’ I did NOT say recite. Recite and Identify are two different words with two different meanings. As for Sujeet, it is a music degree. Not a PhD. BUT, if you want to read about him and his wife, google his name. He was featured in Time Magazine and on American TV when they married. They both have achieved as much if not more than the typical American. Probably more than you have.

    If you contact your country’s government education department and ask how many people in total have PhD’s you will find the number startingly low. The percentage of people with them is far lower than people without. The percentage is higher in the UK though the number is probably lower since our population is less than yours.

    Having said all of that. You can not base the value of life on what education or IQ a person will chose. If that is the case, people who suffer traumatic brain injuries will soon be considered for ‘termination’ and you could become one of these any time you are out driving after a night out or if you fell or any number of things. No one is free from the risk of something happening that could take away their IQ.

    It should not matter if a person has an IQ above or in normal range. THIS IS NOT WHAT GIVES YOU WORTH.

    Michelle, if my numbers are wrong, I’m going from information I received from an NDSS conference video from last year. Perhaps I’ve misquoted. Also, I did not mean that only intelligent babies should be spared termination, I was playing devil’s advocate to the theory that they all be terminated since they aren’t intelligent enough.

  31. Michelle

    Desi, I understand. I guess somewhere in translation things got turned around. I think we agree on one thing for sure, and that is that IQ does not define anyone.
    For the person who used articulation as a reason our kids are “less than”, I would invite you to listen to Stephen Hawking speak, and tell HIM his speech is the definition of stupid. Speech in controlled by muscle, which is affected in DS. Motor planning, fine motor, and other issues affect articulation. I will take my child with her “mouthful of marbles” and her incredible tenacity over anything YOU could offer any day of the week.

  32. NoahsMommy

    Andi, you said…If I am so wrong, why do 90-95% of women choose to abort? Are WE ALL awful murderers? Maybe we do not want our children to suffer in such a tough world.

    just because the majority does something, doesn’t make it the right thing to do. Mob mentality at its finest??? Check your facts, our kids don’t suffer. Well, maybe they do suffer the stares and judgments of the small minded and ignorant…but small beans compared to the joys of living.
    Maybe some day they will find a way to determine if someone will be likely to abort and manipulate the genes so that person can’t have kids at all. Now THAT would be progress!!!

    IN any case…I see several posters here who should be surgically sterilized to avoid any chance of an imperfect “fetus” messing up their schedule.

    people really make me sick.

  33. K

    Andi,

    You know, having a daughter with DS has opened up a whole new world for me. It’s one that I didn’t ask to enter, and when we found out prenatally one that I didn’t want to enter. But, enter I did and it has been more than a beautiful experience.

    You see, I have learned so much more about life. I’ve always said that intellectual capability, beauty, success aren’t really what defines a person but now I am experiencing that with a daughter who has DS. Yeah, I’ve had some stares but overall, she has been accepted far more than I could have ever imagined.

    Be careful throwing around the “90% choose to abort” comment as there are many women who choose to have NO prenatal testing. I have talked to all three OBs in the practice where I go (they have been in the field for over 20 years) and they have NEVER had a woman choose to abort because their baby had DS (very large practice in a large city by the way).

    I do hope that you can find it within yourself to look past the perceived disabilities and find it in your heart to look at the abilities of those who do some of your work, and all others with disabilities with whom you come in contact.

  34. Daniella

    You’ve hit the jackpot on this theme – watch the hits on your blog go up now.

    As for all these degrees and “Normal range” intelligence in people with DS: in all of these discussions and arguments and rantings about testing and abortion, you do not see a lot of those intelligent adults with DS posting on their own behalf. In fact, google “Down Syndrome Forum” and see if you can even find a chat forums for people with DS. There are a couple, yet the few who are posting are pretty lonely there. Why? Because there aren’t enough people with DS who can carry on an online conversation, or create their own posts.

    The parents have organized themselves well, however, although the infighting is pretty severe, between those who think that DS is nothing less than a great gift of superior beings from God and those who would like to discuss the problems of the disorder rationally, including doubts, hopes and disappointments as well as the accomplishments their children have made.

    The multitude of reasons not to bring a child into the world with severe challenges is enough for many families to decide to end these pregnancies. It’s not just a matter of “wanting perfection” or “not being able to handle bringing up a disabled child.”

    But it should not be the place of people on the outside looking in to be making sweeping philosophical pronouncements about families who are faced with such a diagnosis. Each woman is different, each pregnancy is different, and each decision is made on personal circumstances, not generalizations or philosophies. Without being in the individual shoes of each individual woman, you cannot begin to fathom what is in her heart.

    If advocacy for people with DS were equated with mobilizing energies and resources to help those with the disorder to lead fuller and more normal lives, greater inclusion where possible, then that would be great. Unfortunately, those who take advocating for their own children to mean working to rob families of their own decisions, judging them with hatred and viciousness, are misplacing their energies. Really doing something for their children will bring more change in people’s attitudes than screaming from the rooftops about “eugenics.”

  35. A mom

    Daniella – thank you for being a voice of sanity on this blog.

    You’ve hit the nail on the head. There are extremists on both sides, and unfortunately there will never be acceptance from either side of each other, but hopefully we can learn to live with tolerance.

    Spewing hatred towards each other will never make one side or the other agree on something that is this big of an issue not only across the US and all countries.

    I’m going to be honest here – I AM one of those 90-95% who tx for T-21; however, my daughter also had confirmed heart & digestive disorders and I was told by 3 different dr.’s that she would not live. I personally could not put myself and my family through the heartbreak of trying to bring a child who was doomed into the world when I could spare her any pain.

    Now I have opened myself up to all kinds of hate mail ad criticism, but I WILL say this, I completely respect the moms that advocate for their children who have DS and I am NOT of the mind that all children with DS should be terminated.

    Neither am I a proponent of termination – I am a proponent of choice. Not every family feels that they can raise a child with DS and going through a pregnancy and giving the child up for adoption while admirable, is not for every family either. It is simply a matter of what each family feels that they can handle.

    The fact is that those who tx and those who cct will NEVER come to terms; however, blogs like this one with responses like the ones received (some from both sides) will do absolutely nothing to solve the issue, and DAVE and ANDI – you are doing NOTHING to help the situation!

  36. christina

    Those who terminate in the name of perfection are no better than the Nazis of Germany.

  37. angela

    You definitely have not met a person ith DS. You are way off when describing them and should do more research before you make assumptions. I believe that it is a personal choice and parents have to decide if they can handle raising a child with a disibility. It is more work and I would not wish a disibility- of any kind- on a person but to tell any parent what is right for them is infringing on their independence (a trait that you refer to as an asset above and you feel like you have the right to take that away?) What I find scary is that when I was tested all of my tests came back negative for DS and to everyones suprise my daughter was born with DS. My friends tests, on the other hand, cam back positive for DS and once again to everyones suprise her baby was born without DS.
    I am happy that I did not know before I gave birth. I would not want to have to make a decision about aborting the pregnancy. If I would have made the wrong choice I would have missed out on being the mom to an incredible girl who is vibrant, smart (completely age approrpiate), hits and throws better than 1/2 of her baseball team ( comprised of all “typical” kids) can make anyone laugh (maybe even you, David) and absolutley amazing.

    It’s too bad that they have not developed technology to prevent such ignorant close minded individuals from being born!

    we all have imperfections, weaknesses and challenges- some just have labels.

  38. Melanie - Mom

    Wow. I’m a mom of a little DS boy (in perfect health by the way) and also a proponent of choice. We didn’t know he had Trisomy 21 until after he was born, and I don’t know what decision I would have made. But all I can say is THANK GOD we didn’t know. He is pure light and joy. And that’s what parents of DS kids want to be able to say to those who may be forced with this decision. Get to know some kids, some parents, their experiences and their lives. If you do, you may realize this is an opportunity you don’t want to miss out on. I feel blessed. My husband said when our son was born “at least he is not going to bring evil into the world.” Something more normal people might do. But we had no idea the kind of joy he brings. And most of me just wants to say to David – get a clue.

  39. Joshua's Dad

    David

    You’ve opened your mouth and proven you are a fool.

    Down Syndrome causes a range of difficulties, but it is not debilitating.

  40. Jeanette

    Wow, where to begin.

    1) Trisomy 21 is a genetic disorder. It isn’t a disease nor do individuals born with the extra gene “suffer” as you put it.

    2) What most parents of children with Down syndrome want is for society to understand that our kids aren’t “broken”, “mentally retarded”, “non-functioning” or any other would you would use. Our children can and do grow up to be hard working members of society.

    3) Any woman should have all the facts about Down syndrome when they receive a prenatal diagnosis. They should have the medical facts as well as the reality of raising a child with Down syndrome.

    I have a question for David: Did you know have a family member with Ds? You seem like an awfully bitter individual. One would think that you “suffered” from this personally.

    Last, you remind me of someone who did some major spouting of a the future you speak of: HITLER!

    I feel very sorry for you and pity you.

  41. Kacey Bode

    I hope that you do not have children, they will surely be born with a disability, having you for a father. My child does not suffer. There are many things that I could say to defend people with Down syndrome but it is pointless because nothing I say will may a difference in your warped mind. I will say this though, I had the test that is supposed to detect Down syndrome. It came back that the baby was perfect, and guess what she is and she just so happens to have Down syndrome.

  42. Wow, actually your comment about how you could have a child that will suffer is absolutely ridiculous…my daughter caitlyn is blessed with an extra chromosone and also happens to be one of the sweetest little girls ever….maybe if instead of sitting around pretending like you know what you are talking about you could actually get to know someone with down syndrome and be blessed as my family is….but ill bet your on to youre next degrading posting on another topic like old people and how we should just kill them at 60 before they deteriorate right…..because thats what happens when you get old…so in your theory…why should we let them live in pain….get a life or maybe you could use your journalistic abilities for something better like making the world a better place instead of enraging a whole community….you should really check out http://www.ndss.org and maybe you could understand the syndrome and not look from afar like a scared little coward

  43. !ILOVEMYMAMAS!

    WOW…I am embarrASSed and sad to say I was just as close minded as you before the day I actually met someone with DS, my daughter. I have never know true love until I met her. I cannot even imagine how my world would be with out her, you are unbelievably ignorant.
    So what next? Start wiping off anyone born with some sort of mental/physical imperfection…This world was made out of variety believe it or not.
    Then the day when everyone is “normal”, what next? Only one race…COME ON…if everyone was made “perfect” in this world like you would hope for there would be nothing to live for but ignorance.
    I wish you a better life one day that is filled with love, patience, hope and understanding..like us open-minded people have now. I hope what goes around will come around.
    PEACE.
    Denise

  44. jill

    All I have to say is that I wish you the best of luck in your extremely close-minded world. I cannot even believe that you could have the nerve to write something like this…you make me sick! You will live a life of unhappiness if you cannot learn to apreciate and respect ALL human being! Aren’t we all less than perfect? And who are you to put that label on someone anyways? Ah, if only the rest of the world was as igornant as you! Do you even know anyone with DS? And what makes you the expert? In my opinion, people shouldn’t write about things in which they have no knowledge about.

    p.s. Karma is a bitch! Good luck with that!

  45. Desi

    Are autistic children next? Because wouldn’t you like to know that the pc you are using to spew forth this drivil is probably running one of windows operating systems. Bill Gates ‘suffers’ from a form of autism – autism being a range of symptoms – called Aspergers.

  46. Dani, of the article

    Sometimes I think they say it best themselves (linked to Washington Post Friday May 25)

    the link:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/24/AR2007052402123.html

  47. Dani, of the article

    I should have added, second comment down

  48. Emily

    I will say this first this is America and you do have the right to your opinion and so do I. I just happen to think that you are so wrong. If suffering and not being able to lead a normal life is the reason we should abort babies then maybe until there is a test that will disclose every possible illness known to man there shouldn’t be any more children born into this world. If you knew that you were going to have a child that would suffer from cancer when it turned the age of 16 would you have it. I have had Crohn’s disease for 12 years now and I have suffered many times while going through a flare up. My disease has also affected my life at times preventing me from doing things I would normally do. My best friend past away from cancer 2 years ago she suffered miserably before she left this life. Should she and I have been aborted if our parents knew what was to happen to us. My son was born 8 years ago with the diagnosis with Down Syndrome. He has played on a baseball team with the “normal” kids. He is included in the regular education classes in school. I started taking steps when my child was 3 months old to ensure that he would be able to live on his own when he is older. My child is happy and well adjusted. The only medical problem he had was he was born with duodenal atresia and had it corrected at 3 days of age. He has been the model of health since then. Maybe I should ask him if he is suffering. Oh but right now he is playing with his remote control car and laughing his head of (oh he must be so miserable). People suffer when they get older so should we euthanize the elderly? Maybe we should just sterilize everyone so there won’t be any chance of sub-normal people being born. What about people who get in some form of accident and are paralyzed or they suffer brain injuries and are deemed mentally retarded we better kill them too. God forbid anyone lead a less than perfect life these days. Life isn’t perfect it never will be. I hope you think long and hard before having children because you are going to be sorely disappointed when you have a “normal” child and they turn out to be less than perfect. People who choose to abort an unborn child due to the fact they may be mentally hadicapped will have to answer to a higher power. Do not think that I hope there are more children born with Down Syndrome so my child will have friends to play with. My child has more”normal” friends than disabled. My child happens to be very popular in school. I can’t take him any where without at least 5 people stopping to talk to him because they know him. It is the thinking of people like you that make the world an unwelcome place for children like my son. I thank God everyday that he blessed me with my son just the way he is. I am sure someone like you though thinks that the belief in God is ignorant. Having my son is what solidified my belief in the Lord. I will pray for you and your wife in hopes that you will not harbor your belief system and that you will be able to accept all kinds of people in this world.

  49. Emily

    I regards to you Andy! Children are not exclude from the “normal classroom” once they reach the third grade. Inclusion is becoming more and more prevalent in the school system. My son will be entering the 3rd grade this year and still will be included. Hiding the kids in the special ed classroom has become a thing of the past. You really ought to take a day and visit one of your local schools. In the state that I live the special needs kids are include all the way through high school. So what if my son ends up bagging groceries it is an honest job. More than I can say for people sitting on their butts mooching off other people and not even striving to get a job.

    As for the comment you made about only DS Moms only knowing these DS superstars maybe it is because we have chosen to educate ourselves about what kind of lives our children can have. The media never pays attention to kids like ours so you don’t hear about their accomplishments. I am sure you have never looked for the good in any of these kids but you sure were quick to jump on the bandwagon when it came to bashing them and their lives.

    You said if we can fix a mistake then we should. Well killing isn’t fixing a mistake it is running from it. If they come out with some miracle drug that would “cure” Downs then I am all for that. What I am not for is the murdering of innocent lives!!

    Did you know that are some doctors right now at Stanford that have been testing drugs on mice with DS that have made it to where the mice have almost improved to normal coginitive abilities. I have included the link below so you and David can go educate yourselves.

    http://dsresearch.stanford.edu/community/index.html

    Now if this drug finally comes out will there be any reason for the murdering of innocent lives. Oh but I forgot there are many more people out there with different disabilites that you can try to convince people to murder before they even get to begin their lives!!

    Just like I told David I will pray for your miserable soul also.

  50. GHrovat

    I can’t wait till you get to see GOD. How can you possibly justify your rationale to God who created Down’s Syndrome. DO you know anything about downs syndrome? I suggest that before you write on a subject , you learn something about it. You fit the phrase “Everyone is entitled to be stupid, But some abuse that privilege” You have definitely abuse that privilige. I just hope that if ever you get sick or are stricken with a debilitating disease that they don’t throw you out. I will pray for you.

  51. ChristinaH

    David and Andi,
    What gives you the right to claim a child born with down syndrome is so beneath you! Any Christian knows that special needs children are here for a purpose. Parents like myself of a child with down syndrome know that they are children of light. They are here to teach compassion and love. Something obviously missed in your lives. I am proud of him no matter what he learns or how fast he will learn it. And no they do not stop learning at the age of nine or ten. You ignorant nazi fools have no idea what you are talking about. who made you judge and jury of who should live and who should not?
    Go to hell you hitler wannabe’s!

  52. Loni

    David, I’m a 2nd grade school teacher. I have a class of children with different abilities and learning disabilities. I teach at a low income school and I’ve seen many unhappy children. Families aren’t perfect and unfortunately children come to the clasroom with different experiences and difficulties. I’ve seen children with DS have the most supportive and encouraging parents and families, unlike some ” normal” children. What is normal? My students with involved and supportive families are the most successful. The students I have in families with drug abuse, poverty, and incarceration are truly unhappy and don’t perform well in school. As I see it, life is not perfect, no matter how hard we try to make it so, it will never be. We just make the best of it and strive to bring happiness to it. DS kids are just happy and bring joy to those around them. Maybe they just don’t know any different. What’s so bad about that? I believe we are happiest when we step outside of ourselves and help others, not thinking about ourselves and our own happiness. Maybe this is why these kind of children exist, they create selflessness in their caretakers, creating a caring segment of society that accepts people for who they are.

  53. Chris Bode

    David,

    Your autobiography states you, “have been an advocate of individual rights.” People like you do as much for individual rights as the lynch mob did for racial equality. As a US soldier, I believe in the fact that you have every right to voice your opinions in what ever medium you choose. No matter how misguided. I too, enjoy the rights that I fight for, so now you get to hear my opinion; whiten your teeth, or at least brush them before you take a picture. I would think that such a successful, greedy capitalist like yourself could afford a better looking hooker to accompany you to your “I’m better than everyone else” conferences. I know you are the kind of guy that will have children, they will never live up to your standards, they will hate you, have to go to therapy, and you will die rich and alone, your kids will split your money and throw away your ashes. I feel sorry for you actually, because you will never feel the true love of anything, because you love yourself to much. Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand.

  54. L. Edwards

    David,
    I am a breeder of Olde Victorian Bulldogges. This breed resulted from an attempt to rid the bulldog breed of the various health problems it has (respiratory problems, joint issues, eye deformities, etc). Because of this selective breeding, our dogs have retained that wonderful bully look yet are healthy and live an expected 14 years. I think selective breeding is GREAT… for DOGS.
    I got into dog breeding because I was suffering from infertility and needed something to fill that void. Thus, I myself am defective in a manner of speaking. I am a writer and feel that I live a very quality life. That said, I’ll admit that I have various deformities of the reproductive organs, deformities in the hip joints that can make walking painful at times, uncontrollable high blood pressure, TMJ, migraines that hit about 4 times a month, an old upper-back injury that acts up now and again, allergies to more foods and medications than there are hours in a day, and an in-grown toenail.
    Poor me! I SUFFER daily and I should probably be put out of my misery due to my various imperfections, yet I’m only 38 and wonderfully happy! I don’t wish to depart this life just yet. I’m quite happy no-one tested me for my flaws prior to my birth and decided I was unfit to walk among the likes of you and your friends (for I am sure they are all perfect also).
    Yet… I do wonder why you continuously seem to refer to abortion as a “cure” for chromosomal anomalies like Down Syndrome. After all, is death a cure for life?
    When I finally did get pregnant, the ordeal almost cost me my life. How silly am I for listening to that internal voice that cried out for a baby of my own! My daughter was born at 30 weeks gestation (the average pregnancy running 40 weeks) and she was only 2 lbs. 7 oz. As small as she was, she was healthy. She did so well is was a few weeks before we knew she had Down Syndrome (I could not undergo an amniocenteses as I am fearful of needles and the mere thought made my blood pressure launch skyward like the Space Shuttle).
    Well – as she was already BORN (and because I loved her dearly already), I felt I just couldn’t kill her – so I assume in your opinion my daughter is acceptable to your sensibilities in some small way? Don’t think for a minute that even if I had known she had Trisomy 21 that I would have aborted her. I am actually pro-life (I’d rather see someone abort an unwanted child than beat him/her to death at the age of two for wetting his/her pants) but this was NOT an UNWANTED child in any way. I had wanted this child for 11 years!
    I assume if you are ever lucky enough to become a parent of a child as perfect as yourself, that you will invite your perfect friends and family members to come help stone your son or daughter to death after he/she has sustained a brain injury from a fall from your pedestal.
    I simply say – Let he who is without sin cast the first stone (or was there someone else who said that before?). You must be telling the rest of us that you, yourself are without mental or physical fault. You are perfect? Good for you! Of course I’d also like to remind you that Vanity is also a sin.

  55. I have a wonderful little boy with Down syndrome and for you to try and tell everyone that you believe is willing to listen that all parents of children want more babies to be born with down syndrome is incorrect. Do not get me wrong I am not or will I ever agree with your ignorance. When I gave birth to Nicholas we had no idea that he had Down syndrome. Was I scared when they told me that there was a possibility that he Down syndrome, Of course I was, but would I change anything if I had known before he was born. Of course NOT. He is a amazing person with a wonderful future. He is just as much of a person as you and me. Just because he was born a little different, and apparently a much better person then you would be, does not make him any less of a person. Oh yeah and maybe you should do some research before you open you mouth and talk a bunch of crape because the very first mistake was saying that Down syndrome is a disease. It is not!!!!!!!!!! Maybe you should remove you foot out of your mouth. I pray everyday that my wonderful son will never have to meet a person that is so negative about something they know nothing about!!!!!!!!

  56. Della

    I’m 23 and I have a little girl with DS and she’s perfectly fine and infact more advanced in a lot of areas over kids her age because of all the extra support she has through early intervention. I hope you wrote this article for the shock value as it is in no way factual or credible in any other way. Let’s hope you don’t end up with a kid with Down Syndrome.

  57. Myndie

    What I find amusing is you keep saying “they cant have real jobs, bagging groceries and stuffing envelopes” How many “NORMAL” people bag groceries and stuff envelopes or clean up after others. A FUCKING LOT. In fact when I go out I mostly see normal people doing these jobs. Also Many people with ds graduate High school, and as to having babies thats typically the reason “normal” girls DONT graduate! You are one of those people whom get an idea in your head and no matter how many times other try to show you a different perspective you can’t pull your head out of your ass to see or hear it. NO parent wants their child to have a more difficult life, but shit happens and we deal with it. These children arent DISEASED, look up that word in the dictionary and why don’t you do some actual research on the subject.

    What about autism? That affects 1 in every 150 births. Should they all be aborted as well? How many severly autistic people do YOU see working even the “crap” jobs. Or what about a baby born with AIDS(which is a disease) should they all just be killed too?

    And for the guy that thought if it was put more eloquantly than it would make it better? UM NO!!!

    Based on the incorrect facts and notions you seem to love spreading, it seems your IQ is sub-human and hell maby your momma shoulda aborted you!

    The fact that women abort 90% of the time is due largely to the practice of DR’s now. They only offer outdated information and practices. WHICH IS WHY THERE IS A BILL WAITING TO BE PASSED NOW preventing that. True its no walk in the park but just because people are different doesn’t make them less. Your attitude puts you in line with Hitler, yall related by chance?

    Pretty soon people will be aborting due to gender, eye, hair and skin color. Is that the kind of world we should be living in?

  58. steve wedel

    David you have it wrong.I have a three month old daugter with down syndrome.I did not wish this on her nor am I happy she has it,But she is what I have been given and she is the love of my life.The day after she was born there were 20= people at the hospital to see her.They all knew she had down syndrome but that didn’t matter to them because they saw what I saw.She is a beautiful healthy baby girl.Yes she is going to have some learning difficulties and yes she may not have an i.q. that is at the average level but I guarantee you she will be brought up to love and respect people.It really saddens me to see someone like yourself who hates another human being because they are not as intelligent as yourself.It is clear to me that you have had no interaction with down syndrome people, because if you did you would have a different perspective.I have never understood people like yourself who think because their I.Q. is higher then someone else that that makes you better.I am not a college educated man and I am a blue collar worker.this does not make me better or worse then anyone else.I am not a very religiouse man but I do believe in GOD and what he preaches.GOD ghave me this beautifull girl for a reason.In my mind GOD is the only one to give life and take it away.I hope someday you realise that the amount of money you have or the i.Q. you have is very triviel in this world.What matters most is the love you have and the love you are givven fom friends and familly.When you die your I.Q. and money wont be there.I realize you have a right to your opinion but your opinion is uneduacated and very hatefull.GOD bless you and may god save your soul.

  59. Kimberly Wedel

    I truly feel sorry for you. You have no idea what you are missing. On March 30th of this year I gave birth to a baby girl with Down syndrome. I didn’t know in advance because it wouldn’t have made a difference. I will admit I was upset when I found out. But once I held my beautiful daughter, Hailey, I fell in love with her. Just as I did 16 years earlier when I gave birth to my “normal” son. I too would love to see an end to Down syndrome but only because they find a cure or preventitive measures and not because these babies are aborted into extinction. Had I never had my daughter I might agree with some of what you say. I was a different person then. Hailey has changed me into a better person than I ever thought I could be. I had never known anyone with Down syndrome before. Since her birth have met a few. They are people just the same as you and me. There are so many advances being made today that weren’t available in the past. My daughter will have therapy that will help her a lot. You can’t compare an adult today with Down syndrome with the future adults. There is almost no limit to their potential. They go to college, they get jobs, they move into their own homes, they get married. I’m not sure why I’m wasting my time responding to someone as ignorant as you. I just feel the need to speak up for my daughter. Any woman faced with a diagnosis of Down syndrome should hold a baby with it before they make their decision. Many would probably have their child. Those that choose to abort don’t deserve to have a child as precious as mine. You can’t possibly know in advance what a joy they will bring to your life. I have a niece that is a genetic scientist. She is against aborting because of Down syndrome. She wants to counsel people on what to expect for the future and prepare them for life with a special needs child. Hopefully there are a lot more people like her in the world. There may just be hope for the future of mankind. I think you should see the movie Gattaca. That is were we are heading if we don’t change the way people like you think. I would say that I hope you someday have a child with Down syndrome but you don’t deserve to. Only exceptional people can be a parent to a child that some don’t consider “normal”.

  60. Carrie

    As a mother of a two month old son with Down syndrome, I am appaled. Although I would never have wished a child with a disability on any one, I do know that children with D.S. are angels sent directly from heaven. They do not know of hatred and intolerance like our dear David here.

    I also have to say that there was another group of people who thought that those who were different and those with disabilities should be “taken care of”, they were called Nazi’s. How are your comments any different? You advocate the systematic disposal of a group of people different from you. People who you feel are inferior. Sick, sick, sick.

    I would say that I wish that you could meet and love someone with Down syndrome, so that you can see just how wrong you are, but I would not want you to be blessed this much.

    Shame on you.

  61. nicole

    ok so you suck and u must not be blessed to have a down syndrome child/adult in your life.. I have a nephew who is blessed with a littel somethig a extra and he will be abel to live a great life and he will be abel to enjoy the things that we all do ..he allready does and i will make sure that he enjoys any thing ellese that we do when he wants to do it ..

  62. Valerie

    It saddens and angers me that there are people in this world who think like you.

    I have a 4 yr old son with Down Syndrome. Was I thrilled to learn this? No. Do I think he is doomed to a miserable life? No. He is a truly happy, healthy little boy who enjoys life tremendously, and I am very grateful to have him.

    As for his intelligence, he was reading some words at the age of 2. At 3 years old, he was attending a preschool class with all 4 yr olds. He knew his upper and lower case letters and the sounds they made, could count to 10, and knew all his colors. This was actually MORE than the rest of the class knew. But I would never presume that the other children should be euthenized for not knowing as much as him!

    Before you start making your asinine comments, you should really get to know some people with Down Syndrome. You would realize they do not have unhappy, miserable lives, and they are not so different than the rest of us.

  63. abraka

    Dear Valerie & others,

    It is wonderful that your son is healthy, happy and intelligent …and I am sure, you do your best to make him happy…hope your enthusiasm going to last a lifetime…you’ll need it.

    However, the majority of children with Down syndrome will never – ever – gets there when your son already is. AND the majority of the parents just would not be able to take care of them as long as they live…

    My husband has a son with Down syndrome, who is 20 years old. He doesn’t enjoy anything but watching TV and his food. He can barely talk, he does not read, does not write. It happened on a daily basis in the past and still happens that he touches (and playing with) himself in front of everybody lying on the living room floor. He goes to the bathroom WHEN one of his sisters is taking a shower. He doesn’t leave the girls alone when their friends come over…Girls would never EVER say it, but they are really embarrased sometimes because of his behavior…He is also…how can I say it…is very lazy. He could help with small things if he wanted, but he doesnt’ want. I used to try to involve him in housework or yard work, take him for walks etc…but I got tired and I gave it up. He is just sitting around most of the time looking very bored and miserable. Especially, when he can’t have his TV on all day long…I have a 3 years old son and I don’t like if the TV is on during “play hours” (I let my son watch TV one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, but I wish he wouldn’t watch TV at all). He doesn’t want to brush teeth or take showers. He doesn’t flash the toilet nor he wipes his butt. He doesn’t even close the door when he goes to the bathroom. See, this boy will never be able to live by himself, not even in semi-independent settings…now and for ever he is going to live with mom, who will never have a life. In a hard moment (which she has, plenty) she can’t think of “oh, it will, too, pass” because, in her case, you see, it will NEVER pass. By the way, she is a very nice AND patient person, a 57 years old stay-at-home-mom (she couldn’t work anyway, her life is, literally, his son), she never complains, but she is not happy and this poor guy, no, he is not happy either. Nor his father or his sisters…these two girls grew up not getting enough attention from their mother, I know this for a fact, they told me…I know, it is nobody’s fault! This boy needed EVERYTHING she has got…

    When they are here with me, in summer, I try to do my best to make him happy and, at the same time, keep my sanity. Not easy…Especially, because I have a three year old son, and he is just in the “terrible twos”. Well, in his case, it will, at least, pass…

    I also had a cousin with Down syndrome.. He didn’t do any better either. Now he is 40 years old with thyroid and heart problems, still living with parents, never learnt to read, count or write. He used to live with his grandma, and they were quite happy together, but grandma passed away a couple of years ago and now he is severely depressed…

    When I got pregnant 3 years ago, it was no question that I wanted to get tested as soon as possible… I understand, you must raise your children with all your love, no matter if they are healthy or not. But if you can have a test? If you can have a choice???

    It would never even be an issue in Europe… just SO common sense..to give a birth only to a healthy child if you have a choice. By the way, science came from God too, not just children…

    (I was not being “negative”. I only tried to talk about the facts from my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Cruel, might have I sounded, it was not my intention. I don’t like, however, the usual sugar-coating which is going on many subjects, like this, in America. I am not an american, I came from Europe a few years ago. So please forgive me if my style was “too harsh”; I am just not willing to say “green” when I really see “blue”.)

  64. Melanie

    Your birth country explains a lot. The value of human life in substandard countries is much lower than what we all know and respect, here in the good ol’ USofA. And, let me say that you may have graduated from TAMU, but you are NO AGGIE, pal. There’s not anyone in BCS that would claim your ass.

    It is true that many children born with DS suffer substandard existences later on because of their economic status. But, so do 90% of inner-city children. So, here’s a test for pregnant mommies. Question: Do you live inside the city limits of a metropolitan area that has a half-million people or more? If so, abort immediately. That’s how ludicrous you are being.

    I have a daughter with DS who is five years old. She has a trust fund and will start Kindergarten on time because she has met all of her intellectual benchmarks. Hmmmm…. kinda blows holes in your financial and intellectual reasonings.

    God, it hurts my heart to know that you went to TAMU, which is more than just a superior educational institution — it’s the spirit of Aggieland, man. And, you didn’t absorb a drop of it while you were there. By the way, you and your lovely lady in the picture on your bio are perfectly matched.

  65. um…. as I read your words I can tell that your life is worth squat and thus the post you created about DS-in your case DS stands for DUMBSHIT- I bet you have killed a special baby and now you’re justifying—your life is sad. Remember…the circle IS round

  66. Proudmama2aboywithDS

    I just want to say as a mother of a son with DS and a women that works with adults with Ds that it is very sad that you really have rocks for brains, DS is NOT a disease and people do not suffer from it, you disgust me. And as for Abrakas response I am also very truly sorry for you and the way you feel for your step-son, I mean your husbands son as you put it. In My personal experience some people with DS don’t talk or learnt anything as you put it. But that has also been the minority, most of the individuals that I work with have jobs, boyfriends,girlfriends and friends, they participate in the things that all people do, so again I am sorry if your family is unhappy with him, I just hope that you don’t let him read this, I would be unhappy too if my family didnt want me.
    People with DS should be treasured and treated just as any other person would be, Educate yourselves,you might just enjoy the blessings that surround you!

  67. Dana

    You know i found out when i was 5 mo pregnant with my daughter that she has Down syndrome. it didnt make a bit of difference to me, she is my lil girl and i was bringing her into this world. My daughter Stormy is now 19mo old. She is one of the best things in my life. When i found out i had so many people tell me not to bring her into this world and let me tell you what everyone one of them are no EATING their words. Children with Down Syndrome are wonderful, caring, loving and happy children. You talk as if they are aliens or something well here is a news flash. THE ARE HUMAN TOO AND THEY HAVE FEELINGS JUST LIKE THE REST OF US. So why dont you take ur dumbass bullshit and shove it. Back off and let people make their choice on their own. REMEMBER CHILDREN TURN INTO ADULTS WEITHER THEY HAVE DOWN SYNDROME OR NOT. ITS HOW THEY ARE RAISED AND LOVED THAT HELPS THEM LEARN TO BE WHO THEY ARE. MY GUESS UR LIFE GROWING UP SUCKED CAUSE UR A HEARTLESS ASSHOLE

  68. Jennifer

    My 7 month old son with Down Syndrome is the biggest blessing I have ever known in my life. I wouldn’t change him for all the money in the world. People with the attitude of “david” will never and enjoy one of God’s greatest gifts and rightfully so.

    You say “How anyone can want someone below normal is beyond me.” My son is totally normal and perfect in my eyes. And after looking at your photo I say how anyone can want someone with yellow teeth is beyond me. Blah on you.

  69. Ashley

    David,
    I can’t say I disagree with you more. I do however agree that it is sorry for any one to “want” a child to have down syndrome or any other handicap for that matter, BUT they are handling the matter the way they know how and loving their child the way they know how. I do, however, believe that abortion because of a handicap is sad to say the least. My mother was pregnant with triplets at one point in time, she was told to abort baby A because he was the weakest out of A, B, and C. Doctors told her that if she carried all three babies she could potentionally die of heath risk factors. My mother, (not being a religious person) couldn’t chance taking the ‘future’ life of her children away with her own will, so she chose to do nothing. Two weeks later, baby C was misscarried. Babies A and B were born at 24 weeks gestation and sadly after one hour of life baby B took her last breath. Baby A was supposed to be the aborted baby, BUT is 9 years old today and very healthy! He was supposed to have down syndrome, epilepsy, cerebal palsy and be blinde and deaf (according to doctors) BUT he is alive and HEALTHY! Truth is, it is everyone’s personal decision, BUT you will love your child no matter how healthy or unhealthy they are, but who would want to take the risk of killing their child when sooo many times doctors are wrong, or they are right and GOD or nature (as some believe) steps in and reverses the cycle of destruction and the baby is completely healthy!
    Life is right to all living things, just as a seed isn’t a flower yet, but with inplantation and nutrients it become ALIVE with roots and then sprigs up into a flower, life began when the seed sprouted and began growing within the ground, not when it started showing it’s greenery on top of the dirt.

  70. Dionna Standridge

    David, I too have the gut feeling that you do not have a child with downs. Nor have you ever spent much, if any, with a person with downs. So your case of ignorence is easy to over look. At first I only wanted to introduce you to “People First” language.The correct way to address citizens with Downs Syndrome is… “child or person with downs” Not “downs child or downs person” It’s a bit difficult to be a diagnosis befor being a person. Then, after reading some of this, I have decided to put in my two cents. I am the PROUD GRANDMOTHER of 8 grandchildren. The 6th happens to have downs syndrome.And I can tell you this, he is the light of his whole family’s life. Having him has strenghtened our whole family. He is a true blessing. I feel that it a true shame that you have not had the wonderful experience of getting to know someone with downs. If you only had the ability of having an open, mind long enough to allow someone with downs to show you the way, I believe that you would see things much differently. Good Luck in Life

  71. Jeff Credille

    David, I googled down syndrome because my wife and I just recently had a BEAUTIFUL baby girl that just happens to have down syndrome. I stumbled across your article and I am shocked by what you had to say in your article. What is your suggestion to the family of someone that becomes metally disabled due to an accident? Abortion is murder and there is NO WAY that anyone can justify that it is not. If the “mass” inside of a female is not a living being then why does a procedure have to be done to “get rid” of it? Life is precious and the blessings that we have already received from our baby is unmeasurable. I THANK GOD that HE saw fit to bless us with our beautiful baby that just happens to have down syndrome. GOOD LUCK to YOU in your “normal world”.
    JEFF

  72. Only the ignorant and uniformed can spout off as you do. I am saddened that you do not truly understand the worth of a soul. I hope that one day you will allow yourself to see past your prejudices and see individuals with Down Syndrome for what they are instead of what you mistakenly see them to be. Oh, you have so much to learn!

  73. Mom of an angel

    Wow! I think that you are not well suited for human life. By reading your post I would say that your intelligence is below normal. If a pill were available to make my daughters down syndrome go away…I would not give it to her, I would not change who she is! And she wouldn’t change who she is either. She loves her life.

  74. Is this an Illuminati (Old World élite) website. The hankerings confirm this. engage to then disengage and define the world by structures we make and control not this rotten élite

  75. junius

    Sir, I hope that GOD has mercy upon your lost soul, keep you in my prayers

  76. junius

    and by the way my oldest brother was born with this complexity unlike you my bro had nothing but good things in his life. So humble yourself that it was not you JERK

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